Proof: Something is wrong with ATI Drivers

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by The General, Aug 8, 2008.

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  1. Iarwain

    Iarwain Banned

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    I'd wait to close it, I wanna see the review.
     
  2. kapu

    kapu Ancient Guru

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    Wait for review!. His 90 WATT 1.5A v12 PSU will help him achive insane performace.
     
  3. Zyrocenus

    Zyrocenus Master Guru

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    I'm gonna get smoked for this....I cant wait

    I'm kinda disappointed in some of the ppl here for saying what they said to the OP the way they said it. If we're supposed to be elitest and informed and thus intelligent I dont see where some ppl get off speaking the way they do... calling his rig a peice of $hit or garbage or what have you. Or calling him a moron and the like. Doesnt seem like a true gurus behavior and I am slightly saddened.

    Yes his rig might be -forgive me OP I'm merely quoting for effect- "a peice of $hit" but its HIS peice of $hit which he takes pride in. I find it AMAZING that it can do what it can for what it is. In that he shows a mastery in what he posseses. Does THAT alone not make him a worthy guru? I dont think many of us could do with that rig what he has much less have the patience to even TRY. It reminds me of when I struggled to get the GTA3 working on my celeron 400 \ tnt2. I toiled for countless hours trying to get somethin that had NO BUSINESS running on that "peice of $hit" but I eventually got it running at about the same FPS the OP gets in his games and I was STOKED. Sure it wasnt 40+ frames but it was working and I was only too happy to put up with a jitter here and there in frame rates.

    I also agree in a way with what he sez about the drivers. I vaguely remember the days when every kilobit of memory counted... when a 286 8mhz with a math co and 4 megs of ram was INSANE. In those days coders had to be VERY efficient with what they had to work with. In these days of 4 and 8 GIGS of ram and 4 core 4 gig CPUs many coders have become wasteful and lazy in many ways. They are not limited by resources as they used to be. So in that I feel that the OP has a valid statement....the drivers arent as good as they used to be from a resource management \aloccation standpoint. Not just drivers tho... all manner of programming seems to be hit by this...every now and then you find a gem. A game that looks fantasic...isnt very big and you dont need a monster to play it... perfect example...trackmania... if you havent played it, you need to. The nations variant is FREE and quite small...fantastic coding and gameplay in a small package -compared to some of todays 7+ gig games.

    I do agree that his hardware is outdated by todays standards and maybe to OUR standards. What about the OPs standards? if he's happy who are we to tell him what to do? Or to flame him the way some of us have? Ignorance is a 2 way street...

    Rock on OP! I'm in yer corner if no one else is. Spend yer money the way you want and configure yer comp the way you want! What you've got out of that thing on a tiny PSU is totally amazing and my hat is off to you who is able to run crysis on that machine in any respect when there are rigs 5-7x as powerful out there which are knocked to their knees.

    Zyro

    Again tho.... I was a lil saddened to see some of the darker side come out thru these pages... No one deserves a beating for a question....least of this gentleman who never once lost his cool or fired back...

    Bravo
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2008
  4. RejZoR

    RejZoR Ancient Guru

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    Check the start of the thread. We did it the nice way like we do it for everyone.
    But then the comedy began... and we really had to do it with sarcasm all over it...
     

  5. Exceededgoku

    Exceededgoku Member

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    Exactly!! i cant wait for the review tomorrow!
     
  6. lmimmfn

    lmimmfn Ancient Guru

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    Food, is that you?
     
  7. Skiddywinks

    Skiddywinks Ancient Guru

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    Right, let's begin:
    3 screenshots, 3 different versions of GPU-Z
    3 screenshots, 2 different cards.

    These are the obvious ones.

    I think the ones people are missing, and the ones tha have the most significance, are that in the two shots of the same card, they are both using the same BIOS, but show different bandwidth. Funny how the BIOS increase bandwidth, eh?

    And secondly, and this is just the final nail in General's coffin, is that the second one is overclocked. Memory core from 266MHz to 532MHz. And thus, again proving that General has no idea what he is talking about at all.

    Zyrocenus; I also have to give General credit for being calm about this, and not kicking off at us, but he was nicely told he was wrong at the beginning. Several times. We explained what he was missing, and why it was not the drivers, but he refused to listen, and carried on being an ignorant tosser.

    And I have no doubt he is just going to ignore everything I just said that debunked his false beliefs as well.


    Having said that, I love this topic and please don't close it :D
     
  8. Thunderball

    Thunderball Member Guru

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    What did you expect ? There are 6 pages of this thread. We have told him over and over again what is wrong, but this guy just won´t listen.
     
  9. Postalisback

    Postalisback Ancient Guru

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    LOL, you know that's really funny because it looks like you are the one who isn't listening :)
     
  10. xg-ei8ht

    xg-ei8ht Ancient Guru

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    I want to take a piss on that monster rig and watch it burn.:)
     

  11. Passion Fruit

    Passion Fruit Ancient Guru

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    I dont care what his review says to be honest, i dont think he's going to admit hes wrong so no doubt he'll post dodgy information, such as his GPU-Z screenshots previously.
     
  12. Lowteckh

    Lowteckh Member Guru

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    WTF? 6 pages already? Man people, (STFU) stop fueling this **** already and let this be the last post. KTHX.
     
  13. demowhc

    demowhc Member Guru

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    bring on the review! :)

    I'm after crysis dx10 numbers! very high of course!
     
  14. Laykun

    Laykun Ancient Guru

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    You claim to have read the thread, but I can get the strong impression you only read the replies. He's not asking us if his machine is a good match for an HD2400, no, instead he's flaming ATi drivers for in-efficiency, with lack of technical knowledge, proof, and only one stone age machine to test on. So are you in his corner too, agreeing that ATi's drivers are not efficient?

    On the subject of programming you bring up, with todays 'standards' comes the inherent rise in complexity which is over 100 fold over games in the past, I don't think you have a grasp on the planning that is required for games as they stand today, as they are just hugely complex. Managing these projects and balancing speed of production with the efficiency of the program whilst also meeting or getting under budget ( highly unlikely ) is a balancing act best left to circus performers.

    Also, you're argument about memory usage and game size is incredibly flawed and relatively unrelated to the programming side of a game. The number one cause for the increase in size and ram usage of games these days are textures and general media. Look at game from the past, and look at a game now, they are light years apart, especially with the huge variation in levels you get now with less tiling and re-use creating far more dynamic scenes. With realism comes the cost of extra resources.

    But lets keep it on topic, because that's what this thread is all about.
     
  15. The General

    The General Ancient Guru

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    #1 About those 3 photos, the first one is from the FX5500. The bandwidth on the card is under windows98SE using the last driver for Win9x which is the 82.69 beta is 3.4GB. Under XP for the FX5500 PCI its at 4.3 from 81. - 91.73 slightly under the 100 driver, its at 4.3. However in the first GPU-Z above, the bandwidth shot up to some amazing 12.8GB. And its not a error, because i have tested games with the 4.3GB and the 12.8GB and there is a big difference. At 4.3 pretty much every game works, using the 12.8GB older games does not work, but newer ones work fine.

    #2 The other 2 photos are from the same GPU, the BFG Overclocked Version 6200256MB DDR2( Not DDR ) 64bit PCI card. I did not OC the card, because its impossible to OC the 6200, you can , but only a tad bit. But the BFG 6200 is the OC version, where as the 2 PCI cards in the 6200 line of series is not OC, the PNY is not, and neither is the XFX, but the EVGA version is OC also.

    Nevertheless:
    [​IMG]
    " Forceware Drivers 160 and slightly under 170 the bandwidth stays at 4.3 and the stats read: 350/266 "

    [​IMG]
    " Anything above 160 forceware the bandwidth shoots up to 8.5. The stats read 350/532. By the bandwidth going up in newer games with the 6200, games works smoother. I have tested COD4 on it, with 4.3 bandwidth/older drivers COD4 gets 2-10fps. Whereas, using the 175.31 beta and bandwidth at 8.5 i get 15-25fps, very playable "
    .........................................................

    #3 I have the 8400GS, got it a few hours ago. Look for a review sometime tomorrow after i become less busy from work and all, when i get home i plan to test out drivers and games, NVIDIA Physx GPU acceleration, temp checks, you name it. Sorry for the delay , but i have been busy. I do not have the card install right now, i will do that tomorrow. But i have the box right next to my tower, nice package too.

    Specs on card tho:
    BUS Technology PCI
    Memory Amount 512MB DDR2
    Memory Interface 64-bit
    Memory Bandwidth (GB/sec.) 5.33
    Fill Rate (billion pixels/sec.) 9.1
    Core Clock (MHz) 567 MHz
    Memory Frequency (effective) 667 MHz
    Memory Clock 333 MHz
    Shader Speed 1400 MHz
    Stream Processors 32

    Minimum System Requirements
    Intel® or AMD® compatible motherboard
    At least 512MB system RAM
    A minimum 300W system power supply
    An available motherboard PCI slot
    50MB of available hard disk space
    CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive
    Microsoft® Windows® 2000, XP
    VGA or DVI-I compatible monitor

    Be back tomorrow, peace :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2008

  16. roguesn1per

    roguesn1per Ancient Guru

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    I told you to stop talking about the bandwith thing..

    You are still wayyy wrong.
     
  17. elkosith

    elkosith Maha Guru

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    You were asking people's opinion about your problems. Many have given you their opinions based on their point of views. But from they way I see it, you are not ready to ask for people's opinion, because you already have yours and won't let it go.

    So, please don't ask for people's opinion if you can't take it.

    Anyhow, great 2 hours of reading. Worth every second of it :)
     
  18. The General

    The General Ancient Guru

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    I had to correct what i posted. I was trying to find the second FX5500 image, but i just posted the shot without explaining. So i said i will explain this time.

    I wanted to read other people views on it, doesn't mean i have to agree with what everyone has said. I am started to wonder if the 2400 isn't really meant for gaming, but then at that same time, stranglehold, fear, and timeshift and prey works perfect with the card, but other games does not. Its a 50/50 issue, but I OC my 2400 yesterday and played Crysis and it ran better, so maybe the card is weak, but with better drivers i wouldn't have to OC it.

    Pretty much everything we discuss on forums, someone will always disagree. Its the way it is, i could care less to tell you the truth. I wanted to know what everyone thought about the ati drivers, etc ,but as i said i do not have to agree with what someone's said.

    You say i am wrong, cool, i could say the same thing for you. People over at futuremark said the 6200 wouldn't work with 90watts, but hey they was wrong, because it works perfect with it. See, what i mean :wanker:

    Anyways, i will talk with yall laterz. Got my 8400GS THO :banana:
     
  19. roguesn1per

    roguesn1per Ancient Guru

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    Ok ill put this in lamen Terms..

    GPU-Z Gets The Bandwith From a Simple Math Equation.
    If the Driver Reports the Wrong Numbers, or GPU-Z has the wrong info on the Card, it will report the wrong Bandwith.

    Overclocking The memory Increases Bandwith, The Driver Does NOT increase the Bandwith, GPU-Z was not made with using the older drivers you used in mind....Ie(160).

    Ok in even more simple terms.

    Driver Doesnt make Bandwith go up.
    Overclocking Makes Bandwith Go up
    GPU-Z Can be wrong
    You are hurting my Brain with these Stupid Statements.

    I would hate to get you as a client :bang::bang::bang::bang::biggun::stewpid::stewpid:
     
  20. Lycronis

    Lycronis Maha Guru

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    Again, you have failed to actually comprehend what people are saying. Each of the 3 GPU-Z photos you've shown indicate 3 different versions of GPU-Z. That alone can make a huge difference when trying to compare performance because each version can likely give you very different results. The point is, if you want to show accurate comparisons, you need to have a level playing field by using the same versions of GPU-Z, drivers, etc. With that said, it is very difficult for someone to offer help and suggestions to someone else when they flat out refuse to listen.
     
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