Proof: Something is wrong with ATI Drivers

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by The General, Aug 8, 2008.

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  1. Redawgc187

    Redawgc187 Master Guru

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    Below you will find the minimum system requirements just to run the HD 2400 in any system according to specs the fact you can run it at all is amazing. But the reason you are getting slow downs is not due to the drivers at all. The reason you are getting them is that CPU and power supply just cannot keep up with that card. That is what everyone is telling you even a 6200 is completly bottlenecked by the rest of your system. In lamens terms the 6200 and the 2400 interact differently with the cpu. If you had a high speed CPU 2.5 GHZ or more you would not only see a huge difference in the way your ati card performs over the 6200 when certian extensions are called on. The 6200 was not made to require as much from the cpu wich would work better in a less powerful systems.

    System Requirements: Intel Pentium 4/III, Celeron, AMD Duron/Athlon/Athlon XP or compatible with x16 PCI Express slot
    256MB of system memory (1GB+ recommended for Windows Vista)
    Installation software requires CD-ROM drive
    DVD playback requires DVD drive
    Correct Chipset drivers
    270 watt or greater power supply
    Single PCI expansion slotOperating System:
    Microsoft Windows Vista
    Microsoft Windows XP
    Microsoft Windows Media Center Edition
    Platform Support: PC
     
  2. Lowteckh

    Lowteckh Member Guru

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    Naive thickheaded moron. When you buy your "new" computer in October (that will be woefully outdated then also) tell us how bad ATI drivers are K?
     
  3. Redawgc187

    Redawgc187 Master Guru

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    Another thing and the main reason everyone inluding myself was slightly offended. You are saying all your problem are due to drivers and it's clearly a hardware issue. And after spending alot of time and money on these systems we take pride in our machines and the company's that made them possible. So before you bash Ati, Nvidia or whoever make sure you have enough knowledge on the subject to backup what you are saying.
     
  4. demowhc

    demowhc Member Guru

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    lol I couldnt help myself, i had to read more replies in this thread..

    this thread is gold :)
     

  5. roguesn1per

    roguesn1per Ancient Guru

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    Holy ****, please tell me im not reading this correctly...

    His PSU Has ......1.5 AMPS ON THE 12V RAIL!!!!!!!!!!! Thats barely enough to power 2 hard drives!!! and a GFX card...

    "the General" you dont really know anything about computer dude.
    Your digging yourself into a Massive hole right now

    You neve learn oh god:bang::bang:
     
  6. TheAgeOfMen

    TheAgeOfMen Master Guru

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    @TheGeneral

    First thing is, tht you are running that config on a 90w psu is very imba ofcourse, imho its pretty nice for (mainly) internet,movies, etc.

    Second thing is, all your other devices are bottlenecking your Graphix (although the vid is crap as well)

    Thirth thing is that the drivers from ati might not be the best for your system, and your polly will get different FPS with different catalyst drivers, your right about that, but the main problem is that it is not the driver that is causing your frame-drops, but your all your other components!

    So stop whining about those drivers, all the people here OC like theyr life depends on it and they know what they are talking about.

    The only thing i can give u credit for is that you can run tht hardware on a 90w psu, tht is definitly funny, prolly you are using the full 90w, and if you applie a little bit more Voltages on a slot/cpu etc it prolly would not boot anymore :p

    Anyway, try drifferent drivers, you prolly can get some more FPS, but you wont ever play it on normal FPS with drops not lower then 25fps. (atleast the new(er) games.

    So conclusion: If you wanna be IN and COOL, get yourselfe atleast a system with a 8600gt, mobo with atleast 677mhz mem, cpu atleast 6300 dualcore, atleast 1gig memory and at least a 400w psu, you can also look to AMD cofigurations because the cpu are mostly some cheaper :3eyes:

    GL and dont keep wining about the drivers ke, its not the driver!
     
  7. RejZoR

    RejZoR Ancient Guru

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    Then why the heck are you complaining? We already told you that your PC is crap (lets face it, it is) and that games run like crap because of that, not because drivers are broken...
    Now can someone lock this thread as it serves to absolutelly nothing?
     
  8. jsv004

    jsv004 Master Guru

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    lol, I haven't been around here for quite some time but I just have to say this thread has "FAIL" all over it. That 2400 card requires more power than your 6200, of course you'll have big spikes on your fps more so than your 6200 (which requires less power) not to mention that CPU is ANCIENT which is a bottleneck for that 2400. The General, people have stated this and have giving you great advice but you're to ignorant about it, this might be harsh but it's the truth. Do yourself a favor and save that money on your new system than a new graphic card, that 8600 you just ordered won't make things any better, especially with that PSU and CPU.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2008
  9. Laykun

    Laykun Ancient Guru

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    Hi there, I can guarantee you that your CPU is the limiting factor.

    There is a staggering difference between the GeForce 6200 and HD2400's architecture that indeed REQUIRE a beefier CPU to feed the video processor. I'm not just gonna say this without backing it up though.

    In a technical sense, you are correct, it is the driver that is slowing down your computer, but this is infact with respect to better performance out of the video card clock for clock, assuming you have a half decent CPU, which you don't.

    This thing is with the 6200, it has a very simple and straight forward architecture compared the 2400, you have so many Pixel pipes and some many vertex pipes, and they are fixed at those values, easy to use. As far as I under stand the driver doesn't need to do much optimising to get the card to run fine.

    Now the 2400 is a different story. Go have a little read on anandtech or similar page about the R600 architecture, the basis of all new Radeon video cards. The 2400 is a stripped down version of this architecture. The way the GPU is configured internally is alot more complex compaired to previous architecures. Instead of vertex and pixel shaders you have a single shader unit that can do both. But it doesn't end there, these shaders are grouped into groups of 5, and in the R600 there are 64 groups of 5 shaders, totalling 320 shaders. This sounds all nice and straight forward, but when it comes to practice, it's very hard to keep these groups busy. You can only assign work to a group of shaders, not each individual shader in the groups, so you need to have some rather large complex operations passing through your groups to get the most out of them, because small graphics operations will not take advantage of the full 5 shaders provided, and waste clocks.

    Now the point is, to keep the groups feed with large operations, the driver has to do a bit of leg work to optimise graphics code on the fly so that certain operations that by themselves are simple can be grouped together or reordered to take better advantage of the groups width, since it can put 5 shaders to work on one operation per clock.

    This on the fly driver optimisation will require more processing power and memory bandwidth than you currently have, as a PIII is just a poor choice in today's gaming environment, even with an HD2400. It's not the drivers bottlnecking the GPU, it's the CPU bottlnecking the drivers which in turn is bottlnecking the GPU.

    This example is rather simplified, and I know this, just telling you nit-pickers out there.

    If you were missing GL extensions it wouldn't results in programs slowing down, it'd result in games either not running at all, or running with limited visual effects, which would actually be alot faster.

    I had trouble running Halo PC on a duron 1.2ghz with a GeForce FX5600 XT, on a Athlon XP I got literally double the FPS without lag spikes, you're just plain silly running a card as new as the HD2400 on a PIII 600, and you get what you pay for.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2008
  10. flow

    flow Maha Guru

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    Hm,every new catalyst driver seems to fix certain problems or issues in certain games.
    So yes,deep down inside,you could say something is wrong with ati drivers.We wouldn't need a new driver anymore if they were perfect !

    Now ever since pc gaming you would have some situations,where you would stare at a wall,or some direction,and would suffer a great fps impact.This has to do with the fact that most games have a couple of scenes where things get messed up a bit.Now in most games these situations wont even be noticed by the majority of those players since you would have to be at the same spot,looking in the same direction,etc, etc,
    So it would be fair to say,drivers can be improved and games can be improved.

    The name for that is new driver release and game patches.

    The old hardware mentioned,is balancing on the edge.Great for the op he still manages to get fun out of this setup.But a waste of time and common sense, to bother with fps drops below 10 while the max is barely over 20.I suspect this is only achievable with the lowest settings in those games,making it look like something my little nephew recently build with lego blocks.

    As a final note,if you really like to play the games mentioned,do yourself a favor and get an uptodate pc for optimal satisfaction.Fast paced games really aren't that great with 25 fps max,and that's besides the graphics quality,which creates an atmosphere that can make games even more pleasant to play.
    Lower graphics is less atmosphere.
     

  11. TDurden

    TDurden Ancient Guru

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    Exactly.
     
  12. domen

    domen Master Guru

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    300-400W PSU with that PC + 4870? :eek:c:
     
  13. The General

    The General Ancient Guru

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    hmmmm, Just install the Cataylst 8.8 Beta drivers on my 2400 HD card. I can now finally play Jericho On my RIG using the 2400. I could always play the game with my 6200, but i now get 13-21fps in game, which is awesome and playable to me.
    [​IMG]

    Note: Played for about 20mins, loads up super quick, no sound skipping, and my Temps for the 2400 stayed at 42c

    Note: Using 1024x768, no V-sync, Advanced smoothing off, NO aa, Shader and Texture level at high, Montior blur off.

    So hey maybe ATI is improving! Still has a way to go tho, maybe in the 8.8 WHQL the performance will go up a bit.
     
  14. kapu

    kapu Ancient Guru

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    Does GeForce8 Series PCI verssions were released ? ;o (shocked a bit).
     
  15. kapu

    kapu Ancient Guru

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    OMG 1.5AMPS on v12~!!!!!, give it GTX280 now!.



    PS. Posting in legendary thread
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2008

  16. The General

    The General Ancient Guru

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    Let me show you some or what is going on with the PCI community.

    These are PCI 8 Series which is not Available in the United States at the moment:

    " Sparkle 8500 GT "
    http://www.sparkle.com.tw/product.asp?id=69
    " 4 Different 8400GS with Different Cooling Systems & Memory "
    http://www.sparkle.com.tw/product.asp?id=86

    " Albatron soon to be release 8400 GS, 8500GT & 8600GT, the 8400 Is not listed at the moment "
    [​IMG]
    Grapics Engine GeForce 8600GT
    Memory Size 256MB
    Memory Bus 128bit
    Memory Clock 800Mhz
    Engine Clock 540Mhz
    Shader Clock 1188Mhz
    The 8600 GT is the best PCI card , but none of these cards is available in the United States
    http://www.albatron.com.tw/English/product/vga/pro_list.asp?bus=PCI&gpu=9&gpuna=GeForce 8

    Whats in the United States

    PNY 8400GS 512MB PCI, which i should have monday morning :banana:
    [​IMG]

    The Visiontek 2400 HD, Powercolor 2400, Diamond 2400 HD( Which has 20GB of Memory Bandwidth ) and the

    New just release His 2400 HD 512MB
    [​IMG]

    Thats all i know right now, usually other PCI gamers on another forum inform be about them first. I can't wait till my 8400GS come monday morning , i hope Crysis works better. I get around 11-19fps in the game with my 6200 OC PCI card, i should be able to get more with the 8400GS 512MB.

    Peace
    [
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2008
  17. kapu

    kapu Ancient Guru

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    Crysis ?!! on that 1.5 Amps 90Watt PSU!? Dude you are insane idd.

    And this thread ( again ) is legendary, or at least epic.
     
  18. The General

    The General Ancient Guru

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    I clean out my PSU every year, i take it apart and clean every inch of it, even the fan and inside the fan parts. Its been running since 2000, and right now, its blowing out very cool air. :) This computer was meant for 90watts i guess, who knows. And besides i don't have alot of demanding stuff in my computer.

    I have a 120GB internal HD, 2 external HD's one 500GB, one 120GB , a GPU pci, and a extra 2.0 PCI slot card. Thats it. Everything works fine.
    I do want to point out, my monitor seems to be finally dying, but i could replace that anytime. Its not dying per say, just acting weirdly.
     
  19. Thunderball

    Thunderball Member Guru

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    Man you don´t know a thing about the stuff you´re writing here.
    A HD 4870 with a 300-400 Watt PSU ??? WTF
    Good luck with that one.
    Better keep your current system

    But anyway thx for making us laugh :thumbup:
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2008
  20. The General

    The General Ancient Guru

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    I don't know what GPU i planned to buy for my new rig, but i am going to buy a Diamond, could be the 4870 or something else, i would cross that bridge the day i go out and buy a new computer. Anything can change from this point, what i do know, i have 800 dollars save up for a new computer. I am not going to spend 800 on a new rig of course, my guess maybe 600 something, i really don't know.

    Doesn't matter what i buy tho, someone will always complain and whine, it never ends.
     
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