Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jun 29, 2017.
The 18c can't really use more power, but instead will just run lower clocks.
This almost reminds me of the Ryzen 7 launch, where AMD released Ryzen without giving proper time for motherboard manufacturers to test and optimize their boards (not to mention the supply issues). This situation is infinitely worse though since it's due to a hardware design fault, on both counts (insufficient pins + VRM insulators). People who buy these boards are literally playing with fire, and I expect a lot of returns/refunds by hardcore overclockers.
Rushed product releases are never good, especially for early adopters. Although Der8auer apportioned the blame 50/50, I don't blame the motherboard manufacturers here at all. Intel went all over the map on X299 and I don't think anybody predicted that they would release such a power-hungry and hot-running CPU like the 7900X. The need to support KB-X, including a Core i5, to 18-core Core i9s make these boards very challenging to manufacture. Frankly, I don't envy them.
That Asus seem to have delayed their X299 ROG lineup, says it all. Cheapo boards out first to catch the market then the real properly engineered boards later.
The first wave of X299 boards are just daylight robbery, since as Der8auer pointed out, the X moniker in the processor names inherently implies overclocking.
I blame Intel 50% for making the ****up in the first place, and 50% to the board partners for going along with it anyway.
Looks like it's time to start rolling Intel into those AMD runs hot jokes c:.
While AMD chips did run hot and need more power, it was never this bad to the point where you can possibly damage the board and other parts of your rig...Yeah, my only 435 took about 1.6 volts to stay at 3.9 stable, but it ran that high and could take temperatures no problem for years. And that wasn't even a chip made to overclock!
The FX9590 required a 220w TDP board, older 125w boards would either shut down or get damaged. There was a number of threads about that processor blowing older motherboards up.
Well, all I can say is that I am very happy that I went with the Asus X99-WS for my rig. 8+8 pin for the CPU and one 6 pin for the PCIe Slots. And I've fully supplied them all with my PSU. If you go highend, go highend all the way. Board, CPU, PSU. The weakest link that you are trying to save some money on will be the one that breaks.
This guy is a pro overclocker, but he expects crazy OC's out the box? Mod your **** and quit whining! Rebuild your PSU with thicker cables, install custom heatsinks or water blocks. "Pro" overclocker whining about off the shelf components is weak. Blaming a chipset for how a board manufacturer chose to implement it is just dumb.
X99 boards had 2 8-pin connectors, and use of both was recommended for OC on 5960. This isn't anything new; it's not surprising, and it's not a big deal. Intel doesn't suggest or imply that you will attain any positive results from overclocking - that's the board manufacturers and the review sites pushing that. Anyone with a little common sense knows what to expect with more cores. The conclusions people reach from the weakest excuse for information is laughable, but also sad.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think people need to relax on hating so much on Intel. Sure, Intel was clearly being greedy and cheap about X299 and i9, but the CPU at stock speeds actually often has better performance-per-watt than a 7700K or Ryzen 1800X. The problem is that ratio starts to plummet fast once you start OCing.
What I really don't get is why anyone ever expected this to OC well. I knew before it was released that it was going to be limited, and this limitation is exactly why I feel Threadripper will overall be a much better option. Ignore the price point and the 7900X is actually a good CPU. Except for the crappy IHS application, I don't think Intel screwed up the manufacturing of this CPU, and the way it behaves when OCed isn't unreasonable.
Keep in mind cooling solutions have a TDP capacity. A 180W heatsink can keep your CPU temps nice and comfortable as long as it stays below that capacity, but once you reach that limit, the heatsink loses its ability to soak in more heat and so the temperature will continue to rise very quickly. Processors tend to use more watts the hotter they get, which further feeds the problem.
FYI JonnyGuru responded to Der8auer's youtube post and said that it's most likely his power supply that's causing the temps on the cables/VRMs:
OC3D kind of further confirmed this:
Their temps aren't getting anywhere near Der8auers.
Starting to sound like he jumped the gun with the video.
If you have to mod your PSU its garbage first off.
Secondly, this is Intels HEDT platform designed for "enthusiasts" and "overclockers". Yes its up to board makers to make good motherboards, but someone brought up the 9590. That was a garbage part released by AMD. Intel should know better than to release their own 9590s.
The X299 consumer platform seems like its a huge compromise from the start, which is the result of Intel trying to drive prices up on the E5 and E7 Xeons by consolidating them into one platform, along with the not so great Knights Landing CPU.
Intel is trying to do too much and theyre getting sloppy as a result.
Theyre trying to keep selling the same things they have been for 5 years and calling it something new in LGA1151.
Theyre trying to restructure their entire Xeon lineup so it costs them less to make but more to own.
Theyre trying to directly compete with Nvidia and honestly failing miserably. Aurora delay/redesign. Knights Mill wont have Nervana IP and Pascal and Volta destroyed Knights Hill. They have gone quiet on Knights Hill too.
They need to do what Nvidia is doing. Stick to a few things and make sure they come out flawless otherwise people will abandon them for AMD, who is now releasing dirt cheap and highly competetive parts with better quality(like soldered IHS in their small sockets).
ARM is making inroads into HPC and AMD can basically take over almost every use case for Xeons. Nvidia owns deep learning and most of the graphics market, with AMD making a comeback there shortly.
Reason why the VRM are getting so hot is you are running at least 50% more current through them compared to HW-E/BW-E. There is no integrated VRM on the CPU taking a high voltage on SKL-E, so instead of 150 amps @ 2v, it's more like 250 amps @ 1.2v under high loads. Thats only 300 watts, which is not unheard of at that core count. Do linpack/P95 AVX/FMA enabled compute, you're looking at 400W+ just for the CPU, which then you need cold to get 'normal' temperatures. VRMs will need to be liquid cooled, or wait for a better board.
MOSFETS have safe operating temperatures. He didn't mention that. Why is he getting his knickers in a twist? It VRM handling an OC what's to expect?
I'm sorry if you don't like reality, but you can stop turning on your PC and looking at anything news related in this world if that'll help. I know it'll help the rest of the world not have to deal with your unwarranted complaining.
Gee....you don't seem to have a problem with anti-AMD threads and posts...but something negative about Intel and you get all upset...
my personal recommendation has always been YOU NEVER BY FIRST GEN RELEASES.
the motherboard manufactures always rush to have product first to market and almost never do a thorough job with layout and cooling issues can always be blamed on the enduser easier instead of delaying a product release redesigning the onboard cooling or vrm layout for better stability or performance and I don't trust that going with a AMD build will make it somehow magically better considering the same companies are building the boards.
Normally I'd agree with this, but this isn't really a 1st gen product. Sure, it's the first for this socket, but the CPU architecture and the chipset itself are hardly any different than what Intel has been doing the past few years.
All that being said, I didn't really want to do an AM4 build so soon, but my old PC really needed to be replacedd.
X299 VRM Disaster - UPDATE (en)
A very interesting watch, lots of great info )