Powercolor AGP HD 3850

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon' started by Paladinchan, Jan 16, 2008.

  1. Postalisback

    Postalisback Ancient Guru

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    So you're trying to patronise me, well let me tell you something, I've been a regular reader of this forum for the best part of 5 years and you are trying to tell me that I dont know how CPU's differ from each other, if that was the case why would I have gone for this CPU rather than the E2140/2160/2180 then, care to explain that to me?
     
  2. Benito82

    Benito82 Member

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    I wanted to educate you on the fact that you can't compare a Prescott and a Core 2 Duo performance and technology wise. I quote you "Nope, no differences in technology really". This statement is absolutely wrong and needs no further discussion imho
     
  3. Imperious

    Imperious Master Guru

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    Fellas, Fellas, how about just agreeing to disagree, especially as this thread is all about getting the Powercolor HD3850 AGP working.

    And getting back to topic, I pose this question, Why is it that Nvidia have no problems supporting their AGP cards with all their drivers, even the beta ones, and even though they are not making new cards anymore.
    And ATI can't get a simple thing like this sorted?, which to me is absolutely disgraceful considering their partners, Powercolor, Sapphire, Club3d, And Gecube, have all spent (I imagine) quite a lot of money producing these cards, and are most likely Raving Mad about this situation, as it is costing them money.
    The fact that Powecolor could make the driver work (even though it still sucks), indicates that ATI arent really even bothering. I had a look at AMD/ATI forums, and all the questions relating to this go unanswered.
    I'm gonna give them 1 month more MAX to sort this out before I do a full upgrade with NOTHING AMD/ATI whatsoever, Yep, I'll go full Intel/Nvidia because for one thing, Intels cpu's crap on anything AMD currently has to offer, and Nvidia cards have massively superior support drivers wise.
    If I am wrong, and the 8.2 catalyst does actually work with the AGP HD3850, and the few people on this forum are just Bloody unlucky, then I will gladly retract my statements posted here and apologise.
     
  4. gaintbeam

    gaintbeam Active Member

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    Wrong, ratings mean nothing at all. Bioshock, supposedly one of the best fps games, for me, was total crap. Once you get pass the graphics you'll recongize whether the game is good or not. I played the crysis demo for days, while yes it did run like sh@t, I did enjoy bits and parts of it. But you can CLEARLY see that outside of graphics and looks the game is not ready. 4 years ago when I got hooked on FarCry I noticed that when enemies are driving the boats, they dont flinch or react when they're hit; completely unrealistic. I mean in the real world when a boat is gonna blow up you're gonna jump off, why they never bother to improve on their AI code from cryengine1 is beyond me.

    There are many other fps games that I enjoy (trust me all I play is fps), like COJ and riddick, underrated games with better story, less cheesiness and more effort in bringing something new outside of just a pretty package. Crysis, from what I can tell, is 1/3 of a complete game, I've read that the ending clearly shows that EA wants to milk this for all its worth. Even if I had the best computer in the world, it doesn't mean that I'll automatically love Crysis. Yes it looks pretty, but that's all it is. I'm not

    Don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about, I've been playing fps on the computer ever since I started gaming. I'm not your average dude who jumps on and want to blast everything in site, I tend play my games slow and out trick the opponents.
     

  5. gaintbeam

    gaintbeam Active Member

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    This is wrong. If you cannot tell the difference between 35 vs say 60 fps vs 90+fps, then either you're using a crappy monitor or your eyes aren't trained to see the difference. As a competitive gamer, let me say that when fps in something like cs 1.6 dips below 99fps I can tell easily. I hate how people say "you can't tell a difference once you go above 25fps", they're talking out of a book and have no first hand experience. FPS games ALWAYS benefit from more fps.
     
  6. Klaus_1250

    Klaus_1250 Member

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    If I could complain somewhere, I would. I'm most cases, 25 frames for a movie is good enough. But sometimes, you can see stuttering quite clearly. But since there isn't a 50fps cinema format (except for IMAX HD), there is no point in complaining. Hopefully, they'll move to 50fps for newer digital cinema's.
     
  7. honestjohn

    honestjohn Maha Guru

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    Last edited: Feb 14, 2008
  8. Benito82

    Benito82 Member

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    I won't argue with you over Crysis. Each of us has his own taste and oppinion obviously but I had to defend the game because it is just unfair to trash talk it like this. The people at IGN and Gamespot do know what they are talking about ;)
     
  9. Benito82

    Benito82 Member

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    Again, I won't argue anymore over this topic, we have here scientific facts against peoples own perceptions. If someone has a problem with movies in the cinema then I really do feel sorry for you :) and if people "think" they can tell a difference between say 60 and 90 frames then so be it..these people are hardcore fps gamers and a special kind of breed =)

    I remember back in the old days fps gamers even overclocked their PS2 connectors (!!!!) for the mouse to decrease latency.

    It is futile to argument with people that are so fanatic/passionate (no offense) about a certain topic so let's just leave it =)
     
  10. gaintbeam

    gaintbeam Active Member

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    25 fps rule probably applies more to pre-recorded scenes (movies, tv, etc), it doesnt go well with fast paced fps games, which is a completely different situation.

    60 fps vs 100fps or 30 vs 60 vs 90fps... I'm sure anybody with a decent pair of eyes can tell the difference. Maybe if nothing is happening on the screen it is less apparent but if you're in an fps game the difference is night and day, you shouldn't say "hey you're a special breed" because it doesn't take a genius to sense smoothness, it doesn't take a gamer or a hardcore gamer to notice it. You're probably on a lcd or TFT, stuck in 60hz, thats why fps doesn't seem like a big deal because anything over 60hz or maybe 75hz for a good LCD won't make a difference.

    Don't be ridiculous, the more fps the better, especially when you're running a first person shooter game. This has always been the case, and don't try to be sarcastic telling me about how people overclock their mouse ports. People today do it too, even companies like razer and logitech now release mices that come with higher refresh rates, are you saying it's not smoother because of individual human perception? That's ludicrous!

    And no, ratings from magazines and the "big boys" aren't always right. That is the dumbest thing you can say. IGN and Gamespot are just your garden variety of "mainstream" gaming website, their opinions aren't molded from gamers who play a certain type of game or play it competitively or play it well to have an indepth opinion. The writers job is to play one game and move on to the next, just because they're writing for a publication doesn't mean their opinions are cast in gold. Do the rest of us not know wtf we're talking about because we aren't a part of some organization? Screw that idea.

    I'm glad you enjoy crysis, you obviously don't see how much has been cut out of the game and the serious lack to detail to anything OUTSIDE of just eye candy (and trust me some of the graphics aren't too impressive at certain parts either, too much replication on certain objects). Even with its amazing engine it still has a lot of very basic flaws. How does a bullet pierce through a tree trunk and breaks it yet it cannot break off a branch (which is totally do-able if properly optimized)? IMO crytek was the first to release a truly "next gen" engine with farcry back in 2004 but cryengine2 is now here and it's nowhere as groundbreaking as crytek's first release.

    Hopefully FarCry2 will set things right, it looks much more interesting than Crysis, hopefully it will at least have a better plot than Crysis.
     

  11. gaintbeam

    gaintbeam Active Member

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    On another note, the 3850agp seems to be pretty cheap, should be even cheaper in a few months time. If all the drivers issues will be worked out by then, and there are no hidden hardware problems, I'll get one for sure.
     
  12. jbh142

    jbh142 New Member

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    I am very tempted to go ahead and order this. I am goin got try and hold off though. Currently I ahve a x800gt 256mb.. It runs most games pretty darn good.

    Is sapphire a good brand to go with or would you go with powercolor? This is the last upgrade for my machine which has served be me well.

    I am running a duel core x4800, 2gb, so hopefully it ownt bottleneck to much.. I can push my 4800 up to 2.8 with my setup if I need to..
     
  13. Benito82

    Benito82 Member

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    How is a fast paced gaming scene from a FPS different from a lets say car chase/action scene in the cinema when both run at 25 frames? I fail to see the difference, if you can enlighten me, please do.

    "it doesn't take a genius to sense smoothness". We agree on this one, smooth is smooth..and lag is lag but believe me, there are people out there that take 25 frames for smooth ;)

    Companies like Razer or Logitech do increase the refreshrates of their mice yes, but that is only vaguely connected to our discussion about frames. Increasing the rate with which a laser probes the surface does increase sensitivity in games, so decreasing latency when you sniper is good while increasing it is better for faster turning/strafing, I know my homework, I'm a fps player since Wolfenstein and DOOM =)

    It's not just IGN and Gamespot, just about ANY major pc magazine gave Crysis awards left and right.

    Don't get your hopes up for FarCry2 in terms of resembling FarCry, it is developed by EA which bought the copyright from Crytech and the only simmilarity is the name!
     
  14. Benito82

    Benito82 Member

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  15. gaintbeam

    gaintbeam Active Member

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    Yes I'm not an idiot, I know who is making FC2. And I know it's not even related really to the original other than the name. So don't worry about me getting my hopes up, because I know a good game coming when I sense it.

    Awards mean squat. The academy nowadays has a tendency to give out big awards to hyped up films that really aren't so great, does that mean the films themselves are really that good? Of course not! Same with Crysis. It is by no mean groundbreaking, outside of the natural progress of computer graphics, there's nothing "new" that we haven't seen from a combination of other games.

    Yes higher resolution on mice tends to bring up sensitivity, but that's not what I'm talking about, im talking about refreshing/polling rates (HZ), they do not increase sensitivity more than a hair(10%), but what they really do is take more snapshots of your movements while decreasing milliseconds, sounds like it makes little difference but in all seriousness it really does improve one's game. In fact the polling rate is more important than anything else, including DPI which is what causes increase in sensitivity when DPI is bumped up. So I'm talking about hz on the mouse (125hz is standard, 500hz is the sweetspot that a lot of newer mice do nowadays), NOT DPI which is a hyped up term that doesn't mean much beyond a certain number.

    As for 25 fps in a movie, an action scene is all pre-recorded, everything is blurred out at certain points, while in an FPS there's nothing pre-recorded, everything is done on demand so the blurring effect isn't there (though in newer games, like crysis, this exists, so just like movies, lower fps can "feel" less laggy due to the blur). Try it, go to a spot in Crysis where you get 25~ fps or lower, use the blur effect, spin your mouse around, it will be laggy but still smooth enough to play, then play it again with the blur setting disabled, even though you may gain 5 or so fps the game will feel a lot laggy since you see each individual frames (choppy) instead of a blur. This is why traditionally, FPS games require higher fps, you want to see as much motion and fluidness in animation while in films everything is running at fixed rate and it's all optimized for that amount of framerates.

    But then again they are TWO DIFFERENT MEDIUMS, so please I hate it when people say you don't need more than 25fps for games, that's just wrong. People who find 25 fps to be smooth just never seen anything better. A caveman thinks the topical island he lives on is all there is, but until he's transported into another location he'll never know that there are deserts and snow-covered mountains or anything besides what he has already seen.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2008

  16. honestjohn

    honestjohn Maha Guru

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    Sapphire is OK. The Powercolor Card looks like it has a much better cooling solution.
     
  17. arctic89

    arctic89 Member

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    I've been reading this thread for quite a while now and was so tempting to reply so i registered!

    First off thanks for all the info about this card and the not so good news about the 8.2 cats not supporting it atm :bang:. Also thanks for that link honestjohn and yea the sapphires cooling is :puke2:. I'll wait for powercolor, gecube, maybe visiontek? to come out with its dual slot coolers before placing an order. Oh and i have a x2 4200+ OCed so that shouldnt be too much of a bottleneck. Since the 8.2s arent working with the card would that further delay its shipment to retailers or until 8.3 comes out? :cry:
     
  18. another-user

    another-user Member

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    with all the delays, and one of the cat developers sounding less then optimistic about the cards them selfs "NO, but I had no idea they were even available. (Or if they will be for that matter :)" i think im going to hold off on this for awhile.
     
  19. Gump

    Gump Master Guru

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    Last edited: Feb 15, 2008
  20. honestjohn

    honestjohn Maha Guru

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