Power went out for 1 hour at a Micron memory factory will DRAM prices go up?

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Dec 5, 2020.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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  2. anticupidon

    anticupidon Ancient Guru

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    At this point in time I will shrug and move on, because I don't t what's worst:
    Believing in market manipulation conspiracy or denying it.
    Because choosing sides guarantees you a special place and some name calling. Not here, but internet is anything but civil and polite.
    Oh well, my favourite SSD and RAM manufacturer became not so favourite anymore.
     
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  3. wavetrex

    wavetrex Maha Guru

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    I don't get it... don't such critical facilities have some kind of generator backup in place for when power is disrupted?
    Heck, if I were in the business of making billions of dollars of silicon products I would build my own gas/coal power plant right next to the factory !

    This is ridiculous... somebody trips a switch and suddenly massive losses.
     
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  4. HybOj

    HybOj Master Guru

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    Wavetrex, I will correct you... somebody trips a switch and suddenly - massive profits
     

  5. anticupidon

    anticupidon Ancient Guru

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    I will not take the time or will to discuss this further more, it will create a thread hijacking for sure.
    I asked the same, but I learned to shut up sometimes
     
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  6. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    You cannot operate microfabricators on a backup generator, the wave form is way too unstable for the machinery. At best all its good for is keeping anti-contamination machinery and filtration systems running.
     
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  7. anticupidon

    anticupidon Ancient Guru

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    Valid point. However, isn't there yet a solution for all those power outages?
     
  8. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    build their own nuclear reactor?
     
  9. Kaarme

    Kaarme Ancient Guru

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    I don't think we are talking about the kind of backup generators you start by yanking a rope.
     
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  10. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    I dont think 1 hr is that much in the grand scheme of things. If the factory operates 24/7 (720hrs/month), 1 hour is 0.13 % of monthly output. The stock price movement likely has nothing to do with what occurred. Because interruptions in manufacturing do not usually have a positive effect on stock price.
     

  11. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Without knowing if this stopped in the middle of something and they have to discard that work there could be a bit of a holdup plus work on getting all equipment running again and scrubbing it clean from dust and such, didn't consider the power and stability requirements but yeah running the secondary systems or less heavy equipment might help but wouldn't prevent incidents if the main hardware comes to a stop and they have to throw out impure wafers or what not.

    Not sure how long it takes but I heard it's a bit of time and for equipment some of it's really specialized, some ultra violet device I can't recall the name of and one manufacturer doing these with orders years in advance that sort of stuff.
     
  12. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    It would be exactly a Diesel combustion generator that produces extreme variations in electrical wave form and not capable of providing a pure stable output for the fabricators that require precise power waveforms so as not to have imprecise movements during etching.

    the last time sammy had a power outage it took a few days to get everything started again, and that was without needing to clean everything.

    The harmonics of diesel generators is horrible for anything requiring precise mechanical movements.

     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2020
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  13. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    Damn, didnt expect that sort of sensitivity in the process.
     
  14. lmimmfn

    lmimmfn Ancient Guru

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    Prices will go up if their "shitters blocked"
     
  15. Cidious

    Cidious Member Guru

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    I really dislike the title... Will prices go up.. We should believing all the BS that if the power goes out for an hour the prices should go up...These kind of titles are just feeding the frenzy...
     

  16. BFeely

    BFeely Member

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    Does that include the huge generators used to power entire facilities? These don't run a whole lot smoother due to their much higher mass and thus much higher mechanical inertia?
     
  17. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    My thoughts too until I was made aware of the extremely delicate, intricate nature of process (see astyanax post above). More info:

    Chip Fabrication plant shutdowns and consequences

    Concern over the impact of utility power disturbances is probably the greatest in the semiconductor wafer fabrication industry. Producing complex computer chips is an extremely delicate process that blends microelectronics with chemical and mechanical systems, requiring tolerances in microns. The process can take 30 to 50 days to complete and can be totally ruined in a blink of an eye (Energy User News)

    Power outages frequently cause damage to chips, which are fabricated on silicon wafers about the size of dinner plates that may take eight to 12 weeks to process. Wafers that are inside processing machines at the time of an outage are often ruined. In some cases, a shutdown of the air-purifying and conditioning system that keeps air in a chip factory free of dust also could contaminate chips.

    http://energyskeptic.com/2014/interdependent-chip-fab-electricgrid-financial-sys/
     
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  18. Kaarme

    Kaarme Ancient Guru

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    I'm no professional in that field, but surely anything requiring precise movements in such fabrication is using DC and stepper motors run by microcontrollers, not some humongous AC motors like you would find at a sawmill. I imagine the actual problem is that the factory as a whole eats megawatts of power. Actually, the article alanm linked to says it clearly: The chip manufacturing plants consume so much energy that they would need such a large and expensive power plant that they may consider it out of the question. Needless to say, if you have a huge power plant of your own to ensure steady power, you need to be running the power plant all the time. You can't just turn it on in a microsecond if you lose grid power. However, most likely the power you produce yourself, with all the expenses involved in running a power plant, would make the electricity from there more expensive than publicly traded electricity.

    So, apparently the semiconductor plants often just rely on praying the public grip never fails.
     
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  19. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    LOL

    https://download.schneider-electric...ame=INDED104010EN.pdf&p_Doc_Ref=INDED104010EN

    Speak for yourself :D
     
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  20. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    RAM pricing destined to be doomed forever, got it.
    Well what can they do when there's a major outage or other problem, anything from man with digging equipment to lightning strikes could be a major issue after all plus downtime or maintenance and equipment failure at the plant itself.

    EDIT: Well I shouldn't use the local situation and overall it's not like there's incidents every month or so.

    Finally got done with some upgrading of the equipment for reliability and improved uptime here and then someone decided to also overhaul the water or sewage piping as that was getting in need of maintenance.

    They found where the power cables were alright ha ha. :D
    (Thankfully after digging them down this one time that turned out to be a problem things have been fairly stable over how it used to be with overall stability.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2020

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