Possible? If so, how? FX5900->Quadro / 6800->Quadro

Discussion in 'RivaTuner Advanced Discussion forum' started by DarknessGFX, Feb 25, 2006.

  1. Invader5700

    Invader5700 New Member

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    GPU:
    Geforce 6800 256
    Modifing Go 6800 256 in notebook ?

    Yo peaple...
    I just got this laptop from Alienwere with this Go 6800, and i run some tests on 3dmark 2006, and found that there are peaple with 50% higher score in graphic tests then me with the same system spec. Now i belive they had used Riva Tuner...but i dont know was that laptop or not.
    And here is my qestion! Can i do somthing with Riva Tuner to modify this VGA Card.
    And if there is...how? and what will become of it ? is it risky to burn somthing...
    please peaple...some info on this :)
    THANKS
     
  2. clokkevi

    clokkevi Master Guru

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    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 680
    @Invader5700: This is not the correct thread.
    This thread is about modding a GeForce 6800 card to a Quadro FX 4000 card.
    But this will not increase 3dmark results at all, since 3dmark is Direct3D tests.
    The Quadro mod will increase results in the OpenGL test SPECviewperf.
    Please start a new thread and post your question there! :)
     
  3. bai302

    bai302 New Member

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    GPU:
    Quadro FX3450U
    ThanX very much for clokkevi !! I've just achieved.
     
  4. bai302

    bai302 New Member

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    GPU:
    Quadro FX3450U
    I come from China. Here, A 6800Ultra is just cost less than 200USD$.
     

  5. diDuke

    diDuke Member

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    GPU:
    gf8800gt
    hi,
    though a bit irrelevant here, there is also the way of the hardmod. see www.newbietech.net for a complete guide to hardmod a 6800gt to fx4000. it includes resistor un/re-soldering and bios flashing, but then u have an "original" fx4000. it is even possible to install driver under linux.
     
  6. AlecRyben

    AlecRyben Ancient Guru

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    GPU:
    5x580 2x590 2x780Ti 1x970
    You can do the same with a BIOS flash only. Hardmodding is absolutely not needed.
     
  7. diDuke

    diDuke Member

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    GPU:
    gf8800gt
    Have u tried that? (modding a 6800 just with bios flashing?) If so, tell me how did it go.

    If i'm not mistaken the resistors are there to set a register in the chip with the device id. So if an app/driver/etc checks against this register it will show as a gf not a quadro.

    I don't state that it is necessary to do a hardmod, especially on winxp with rivatuner's rom strap feature. All i say is that with hardmodding u are as close to quadro as u can be ;)
     
  8. clokkevi

    clokkevi Master Guru

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    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 680
  9. diDuke

    diDuke Member

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    GPU:
    gf8800gt
    ok, i read the mention posts. I have some questions though. These are about 6800.


    1. What is the purpose of the resistors?


    2. From where does the pc_bios get the device id? From where does the vga_bios gets a device id? (2 years ago when i hardmodded a 5700 to q1100 i needed to change a hex number in the bios also for things to get working - actually the number was the same with the device id) and from where does the nvidia driver get the device id?

    (is this correct : the vga bios gets the device id from the resistors and then reports this to pc_bios/windows/driver) ?


    3. Besides setting memory/core timings etc. and controlling pro caps does the (quadro) vga_bios do anything else? I read in a nv paper about quadros' having different memory managment from geforces'. Is this a vga_bios feature or it means diffent silicon on chip or is it a driver feature?


    If anyone can answer these (unwinder maybe) please do, imho it will clear things for many people in here.
     
  10. clokkevi

    clokkevi Master Guru

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    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 680
    Unwinder is usually not on this forum in weekends,
    so here is my - (probably worthless) - 2 cents:

    If I remember correctly, the resistor replacement + BIOS replacement was needed for modding of earlier GPU's...
    - but that the NV40's was somewhat different; on those, only BIOS replacement was needed.

    Also, I very, very vaguely remember reading about how the ID was not read directly,
    but instead copied to a "register" (I guess this means a location inside nv4_mini.sys's memory?)
    Then - because this register could be written to by the NVstrap driver
    - this made the softmodding of NV40 possible.
    Either for changing the lower 4 bits of the 16-bit device ID,
    or for enabling of disabled pixel pipelines / vertex processors.
    And both these changes can also be done by patching the BIOS file.

    The creator of the http://www.newbietech.net/ website, rui0317,
    has posted 380 posts here at RivaTuner forum;
    http://forums.guru3d.com/search.php?searchid=159202
    It seems he has not posted here since 03-22-2006, though.
    Maybe he did the resistor trick very early, before it was known
    that pure BIOS replacement would work on a NV40..?
    I hope he will come back and post more here,
    - I loved his explanation of the relationship between a program, the drivers and the hardware:
    http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?p=1632311#post1632311
    :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2006

  11. juodvarnis

    juodvarnis Member

    Messages:
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    GPU:
    mobility radeon hd 5650
    Discovery!

    i noticed one intresting problem with softmoded 6800gt and different drivers, earlier i thought that it is because of pci-e card, but then i have tested on agp card and i've got same results:

    tested systems:
    p4 @3.5ghz with i865pe AGP mobo
    a64 x2 @2.6ghz with nf4 PCI-e and with K8T800 Pro AGP mobos
    agp galaxy 6800gt (GU) 400/1100mhz
    pci-e asus 6800gt 350/1000mhz
    3ds max 8 +maxtreme 8

    specviewperf and other test give quite same results, BUT when i tested geometry2.max with stopwach i get about 7-8 seconds (~40fps) with drivers up to 61.82 and with higher(later) drivers it takes about 15sec. to complete that test (~20fps) on other test there is some decrease, but not so noticeable.

    can someone comment this?!?

    here is my earlier topic:
    http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=175633
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2006
  12. schorsch07

    schorsch07 Member

    Messages:
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    GPU:
    Asus (B) Extreme N6800GT
    Is it possible to modify this Card into Quadro ?

    Hello folks,

    I buy this card ( Asus EN 6800 GT, please look at the jpeg ) is it possible to modify this card into a Quadro, and where can i get older versions of
    ForceWare Drivers, because the latest driver is to new and rivatuner
    didnĀ“t work with him.

    Thanks for your help
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2006
  13. clokkevi

    clokkevi Master Guru

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    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 680
    It is not possible to know if this is moddable or not by looking at the picture.
    If you bother to actually *read* this thread,
    http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=172822
    starting from the first post, then continue,
    you will see how you can find out yourself if it is moddable or not.
    Read especially
    http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?p=1827306#post1827306
    and
    http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?p=1850097#post1850097

    However, since you *say* it is a 6800 GT card, it *should* be moddable..! :)

    You can get many ForceWare versions here:
    ftp://download.nvidia.com/Windows/
    And the Quadro certifieds are here
    ftp://download.nvidia.com/Windows/Quadro_Certified/
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2006
  14. schorsch07

    schorsch07 Member

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    GPU:
    Asus (B) Extreme N6800GT
    What have i done wrong ?

    hello folks,

    i try to modify my videocard ( asus N6800GT with nv 40 chipset )
    like clokkevi described in that post
    http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=172822
    but i can see no improvement in workflow ( rendering with cinema 4d )
    and cinebench ( benchmark programm for cinema 4d from maxon )
    i try to modify the card with the latest Rivatuner version ( 2.0 RC16 )
    and the forceware driver version 84.26, and i worked with the cinema 4D R9 version, but it seems not to work.
    what have i done wrong ?
    i attached 2 jpegs, in which you can see the settings i used.

    thanks for your information
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2006
  15. clokkevi

    clokkevi Master Guru

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    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 680
    The settings looks good!

    Please download SPECviewperf 7.1.1

    ftp://spec.ir.miami.edu/dist/gpc/opc/viewperf/SPECviewperf711_full.exe

    Install it, and run the all the tests, especially the ugs-03 test.

    Run the tests in "Quadro mode" - save the results as a new file.
    The detailed results are the best, as you will see exactly which tests are good.


    Then run the tests in "6800 GT mode":
    - Turn OFF "Unlock professional capabilities" and
    - switch "Graphics adapter identification" back to "determined by hardware"
    Use these 2 options when you want to switch between 6800 GT <--> Quadro
    ("Use ROM straps for PCI DeviceID programming" should *always* be ON)
    Save these "6800 GT mode" results too.

    Then compare them.

    This will verify (or not) that everything is correct.

    Here is my detailed results for the ugs-03 test:

    Code:
    ugs-03 Viewset - 6800 GT mode
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Test Weight  Frames    DLB  Visual Double     Frame Buffer     Depth  Stencil  
      #    Per Sec   Sec   ID    Buffer Red Green Blue Alpha Buffer  Buffer  
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      1   16.50   5.41     N/A   7      True    8    8    8    0     24      0   
      2   16.50   5.93     N/A   7      True    8    8    8    0     24      0   
      3   16.50   4.95     N/A   7      True    8    8    8    0     24      0   
      4   16.50   5.42     N/A   7      True    8    8    8    0     24      0   
      5    8.50   65.1     N/A   7      True    8    8    8    0     24      0   
      6    8.50   79.3     N/A   7      True    8    8    8    0     24      0   
      7    8.50   8.12     N/A   7      True    8    8    8    0     24      0   
      8    8.50   11.9     N/A   7      True    8    8    8    0     24      0   
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ugs-03 Weighted Geometric Mean =   9.302
    Code:
    ugs-03 Viewset - Quadro FX 4000 mode
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Test Weight  Frames    DLB  Visual Double     Frame Buffer     Depth  Stencil  
      #    Per Sec   Sec   ID    Buffer Red Green Blue Alpha Buffer  Buffer  
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      1   16.50   56.9     N/A   7      True    8    8    8    0     24      0   
      2   16.50   63.9     N/A   7      True    8    8    8    0     24      0   
      3   16.50   50.9     N/A   7      True    8    8    8    0     24      0   
      4   16.50   56.2     N/A   7      True    8    8    8    0     24      0   
      5    8.50   93.3     N/A   7      True    8    8    8    0     24      0   
      6    8.50    114     N/A   7      True    8    8    8    0     24      0   
      7    8.50   82.9     N/A   7      True    8    8    8    0     24      0   
      8    8.50   89.3     N/A   7      True    8    8    8    0     24      0   
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ugs-03 Weighted Geometric Mean =   67.45
    As you can see, many of the tests increased their performance by 1000% in Quadro mode.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2006

  16. schorsch07

    schorsch07 Member

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    GPU:
    Asus (B) Extreme N6800GT
    Here are my results

    Hello clokkevi,

    here are my test results,
    does it mean that i can work faster in 3D scenes with much polygons,
    in the quadro mode than in the 6800 gt mode. or what are the differences of
    these two modes.
    and why are the results of your videocard considerably better than
    my videocard

    thanks for your help
     
  17. schorsch07

    schorsch07 Member

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    GPU:
    Asus (B) Extreme N6800GT
    results better to read

    i think this is better to read than the jpegs

    ugs-03 Viewset ( 6800 GT )
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Test Weight Frames DLB Visual Double Frame Buffer Depth Stencil
    # Per Sec Sec ID Buffer Red Green Blue Alpha Buffer Buffer
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1 16.50 4.98 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    2 16.50 5.52 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    3 16.50 4.68 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    4 16.50 5.14 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    5 8.50 59.3 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    6 8.50 59.8 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    7 8.50 7.47 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    8 8.50 10.9 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ugs-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 8.502




    ugs-03 Viewset ( quadro fx 4000 )
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Test Weight Frames DLB Visual Double Frame Buffer Depth Stencil
    # Per Sec Sec ID Buffer Red Green Blue Alpha Buffer Buffer
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1 16.50 29.9 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    2 16.50 38.9 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    3 16.50 29.9 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    4 16.50 34.5 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    5 8.50 59.8 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    6 8.50 59.8 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    7 8.50 59.7 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    8 8.50 59.7 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ugs-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 40.46


    Run All Summary ( 6800 GT)

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\3DSMAX\SUMMARY.TXT
    3dsmax-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 18.09

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\DRV\SUMMARY.TXT
    drv-09 Weighted Geometric Mean = 7.045

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\DX\SUMMARY.TXT
    dx-08 Weighted Geometric Mean = 58.77

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\LIGHT\SUMMARY.TXT
    light-06 Weighted Geometric Mean = 18.75

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\PROE\SUMMARY.TXT
    proe-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 2.704

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\UGS\SUMMARY.TXT
    ugs-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 8.498


    Run All Summary ( Quadro FX 4000)

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\3DSMAX\SUMMARY.TXT
    3dsmax-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 36.73

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\DRV\SUMMARY.TXT
    drv-09 Weighted Geometric Mean = 59.78

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\DX\SUMMARY.TXT
    dx-08 Weighted Geometric Mean = 59.79

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\LIGHT\SUMMARY.TXT
    light-06 Weighted Geometric Mean = 41.77

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\PROE\SUMMARY.TXT
    proe-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 45.16

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\UGS\SUMMARY.TXT
    ugs-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 40.46
     
  18. clokkevi

    clokkevi Master Guru

    Messages:
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    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 680
    Very good!
    Your results are much better in Quadro mode, so your mod *works*.

    Regarding my results vs. your results:

    There is something you need to do,
    and that is to determine which driver version you want to use.
    If you go to
    http://www.nvidia.com/page/partner_certified_drivers.html
    you will see that 61.82 is the lastest that is cerified for Maxon Cinema4D
    - in this list, at least.

    I used 77.56 drivers, since they were the latest for Maya, Studio and XSI.
    So if you want a 1:1 comparison with my results, you should install 77.56,
    then do the procedure I describe below.

    Before you run SPECviewperf tests, you should always do this procedure:

    These are the settings which are used in the results on the SPEC site, e.g
    http://www.spec.org/gpc/Oct1_04/opc.data/vp711/summary.html
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Set your resolution to 1280 x 1024, 32-bit color

    Then go to "Performance & Quality settings"

    Here, you should choose "- Global driver settings" in "Active profile:"

    [​IMG]

    If it is possible to click the "Restore" button, then do this.

    Also, set the "Global driver settings" -> "View:" to "Advanced settings"

    In the end, it should look like this:

    [​IMG]
    ..these screenshots are not from my PC, I have AGP 8X so it says "Quadro FX 4000" instead of "GeForce 6800 Series"
    Also, I use Windows Classic style with custom black / grey colors, like this:
    [​IMG]


    Click "Apply" button, if it is possible. Do not click "OK" button yet.

    First, find "Vertical Sync" and change from "Application-controlled" to "OFF"

    This will enable the "Restore" button again, but this time, do not click it.

    Instead, click "Apply" and then click "OK"

    Then restart your PC.

    Stop as much of the running, auto-starting programs as possible,
    MSN Messenger etc., all those in the lower right corner of your screen.

    Then do the SPECviewperf tests.
    Do not even *move* the mouse when running the tests...!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


    Lastly, after you have done your testing, and you want best stability / performance from your program,
    you need a certain file, "nvwsapps.xml".
    This was not installed because of your PCI-E makes Windows see your card as a GeForce.

    You need to manually extract "nvwsapps.xm_" from the driver version you use:
    Open the driver installer with WinRAR, extract "nvwsapps.xm_"

    Then expand it, from "nvwsapps.xm_" to "nvwsapps.xml".
    This is done with the "expand.exe" command.
    Copy "nvwsapps.xm_" to a folder c:\tmp

    Open the Command Prompt, then enter
    cd c:\tmp

    Now enter
    dir
    Code:
    C:\tmp>dir
     Volume in drive C has no label.
     Volume Serial Number is 1234-1234
    
     Directory of C:\tmp
    
    06.09.2006  15:51    <DIR>          .
    06.09.2006  15:51    <DIR>          ..
    17.03.2006  14:16             9 439 NvwsApps.xm_
                   1 File(s)          9 439 bytes
                   2 Dir(s)   7 112 347 648 bytes free
    This verifies that this is the correct folder, with "NvwsApps.xm_" inside

    Then enter
    expand nvwsapps.xm_ nvwsapps.xml
    Code:
    C:\tmp>expand NvwsApps.xm_ NvwsApps.xml
    Microsoft (R) File Expansion Utility  Version 5.1.2600.0
    Copyright (C) Microsoft Corp 1990-1999.  All rights reserved.
    
    Expanding nvwsapps.xm_ to nvwsapps.xml.
    nvwsapps.xm_: 9439 bytes expanded to 63785 bytes, 575% increase.
    Now you have the expanded file, "nvwsapps.xml" inside c:\tmp

    Finally, copy this file to C:\WINDOWS\system32\
    Enter
    copy nvwsapps.xml %windir%\system32\
    Code:
    C:\tmp>copy nvwsapps.xml %windir%\system32\
            1 file(s) copied.
    Then restart your PC.

    This will make it possible to select Cinema4D from the in "Active profile:"
    This is a preset that is certified to work with Cinema4D.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2006
  19. schorsch07

    schorsch07 Member

    Messages:
    15
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    GPU:
    Asus (B) Extreme N6800GT
    Here is my new result

    Hello clokkevi,

    here is my new result, i think the results are nearly the same as you have.
    Now i just have to bring my system in an stabile condition, like you show it in your post.

    Thanks for your help man

    PS:
    I have one more question. What are the differences of the quadro mode and the 6800 gt mode.
    Are i am able to work faster in 3D scenes with much polygons and can use
    more 3d features in the quadro mode ?



    ugs-03 Viewset
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Test Weight Frames DLB Visual Double Frame Buffer Depth Stencil
    # Per Sec Sec ID Buffer Red Green Blue Alpha Buffer Buffer
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1 16.50 56.9 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    2 16.50 63.8 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    3 16.50 50.8 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    4 16.50 56.1 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    5 8.50 93.0 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    6 8.50 113 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    7 8.50 82.8 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    8 8.50 89.3 N/A 7 True 8 8 8 0 24 0
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ugs-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 67.32
     
  20. clokkevi

    clokkevi Master Guru

    Messages:
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    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 680
    Very, very, very good! :) :)

    About your question:
    To put it simple:
    With Quadro mode, there are some features that are not avaible at all in GeForce mode,
    - other features are run in GPU hardware in Quadro vs. CPU software in GeForce.

    It really depends on what program you use.
    NVidia made a comparison some years ago:
    http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro_geforce.html
    But some programs have evolved a lot since this.
    An example is 3ds Max. It has 3 drivers;
    Direct3D, OpenGL and MAXtreme (a special OpenGL version)
    MAXtreme is only possible to install and use if you have a Quadro.
    While in 3ds max 4, at the time of the NVidia comparison,
    the MAXtreme may have been the fastest driver,
    nowadays in 3ds max 7 and 3ds Max 8, it seems as Direct3D is the fastest.
    And Quadro gives only OpenGL enhancements.
    It may be that Autodesk found out that 90% of the Max users did not have Quadro,
    and so they started optmizing the program for the default Direct3D drivers.
    Still, MAXtreme has options that makes the quality in the viewport better.

    However, Autodesk Maya, and Alias Studio has Quadro in their "Qualified Hardware" lists, but no GeForces...
    (..except 7800 GTX, but it is said to use "OpenGL preset: Maya", and AFAIK this is not possible on 7800 GTX,
    as OpenGL presets are only available on Quadro's.. or so I thought!)
    http://www.alias.com/eng/support/maya/qualified_hardware/QUAL/maya_80_win.html

    So, as I said, it depends on the program.
    I think the "supported hardware" is what counts most for the people who actually pay for Quadro cards..
    If you run a studio, it is very important that your people don't have to stop working
    because a program crashes. And if it do crash, it is important that you can call e.g. Autodesk,
    and that Autodesk knows your graphic card and it's issues,
    so they can give you help as fast as possible.
    This may be much more important than higher framerates in the viewports,
    which may be what most home-users worry about..! :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2006

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