POLL: Working from Home, salary reduction.

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by Loobyluggs, Aug 4, 2020.

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Would you accept a pay cut to work from home?

  1. Yes

    11.1%
  2. No

    66.7%
  3. Depends on how much of a pay cut

    22.2%
  1. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Taking a class? No.

    As for negotiating, the person doing the hiring is the one who can sign off the budget, not HR. HR do not set departmental budgets, those are set by directors and passed onto managers who take the budget and run the department accordingly - including the salaries to run the department. If they have a tight budget, then not much wiggle room for negotiating with them, but if they want you - then they would have to go to the director of their division and get approval.

    Basically, managers are the ones who fight your corner for you, and protect you from the tonne of crap dumped on them by the director.
     
  2. Is this an example taken from the company you work for? Or are you trying to tell me your post is a one size fits all solution?
     
  3. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Oh, that's a highly generic hierarchical corporate structure for decision making and compartmentalisation in companies with identical structures.
     
  4. It sounds more like your arrogance and ego talking if you ask me. Also your inability to simply say "Uh duh - it's just my opinion dude" I feel like the more I am peeling away at this onion of a thread the more I am just finding out the Emperor has no clothes.
     

  5. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Not sure what pluralistic ignorance has to do with corporate structures. Directors report to managing directors, and managers report to directors.

    There are more than enough charts and graphs on-line to look up if you think my objective extrapolation of facts is incorrect in the broad and general terms for which it was presented, 'sir.

    I will concede the exact terminology may differ from country to country, USA have presidents and vice presidents, but managers and department heads controlling budgets for which they have been given is, a given.
     
  6. I was being facetious. What you wrote one post back before my last post (or two) seemed really opinionated. You said it like “this is what it is” but I’m just kind of like “ehhh okay” if you say so. Seems very speculative.

    Here, I’ll give an example from memory. I've had to hire someone before but had no final say over how much they made. I was aware of my department’s budget but HR & our dept head signed off on their salary. In another company I worked for we actually had a position called “Onboarding Manager”. Sure I’d been aware of pay for people I hired and knew ok I can interview people at “this range” but honestly most of the time those people already have sorted that out with a recruiter in HR before even talking to me & I never had to bring it up. Hence my hesitation when I read your post and thought to myself “I don’t know that this person really knows what they are talking about”

    EDIT: Can someone else jump in and help me out here?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2020
  7. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Probably not :)
     
  8. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    in civilised nations, travel and attire has nothing to do with the amount of money you earn.
     
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  9. Black_ice_Spain

    Black_ice_Spain Ancient Guru

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    I just got swapped to a 80% remote (aka one day per week I have to go to the office, the day we agree in the team). No payment cuts tho

    1- The time you spend going to work is irrelevant, actually no1 paid for that, I only spent 15min before, so they can't use that.
    2- And also you still need to keep your flat in the city (1 day each week at least). You can argue about this if it's full remote, but still, you have to pay rents anywhere, maybe you can say this if you are in London or 2-3 cities in the world.
    3- I was never required to dress anything special for my job anyways too.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
  10. Clouseau

    Clouseau Ancient Guru

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    Do not know about other countries or even other companies I have not been employed with. One thing was for certain, HR only had the authority to extend the offer they were instructed to offer. HR had no authority to approve a counter offer that was outside of the range they were given. If the counter offer was outside of that predetermined range, it would be relayed back to the individual that had the authority to approve it or make a different offer. HR is just the middleman in the whole process. HR then enters the picture again only functioning as the onboarding party that introduces the employee to the company culture. I have set limits stating that the starting salary for the position was not to go above a certain point. If the individual did not like it, we just moved down the list to the next person. Always had three to four individuals picked out. Only once did the interviewing process need to be opened again.
     

  11. Without something concrete to source from like a book or an actual point of reference that you can link here that backs up what you are writing It's speculative. Like @Clouseau post I'd reiterate what I wrote earlier, "I can only speak to my own experience" in the companies I have worked in myself as well, I think to say "I know how every company is" unless you can say "oh well I'm a professor I teach this subject I specialize in it" or to give me something more to go off on than "oh just Google it" or "it's a simple blablablablabla" I mean are you kidding me? What a load of rambling nonsense
     
  12. Celcius

    Celcius Master Guru

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    The way the question is worded makes me want to answer with the ever-popular, "It depends..."

    On one hand, the boss may walk into the lab and say, "Cellie, I will allow you to work from your home *if* you are willing to accept a lower wage." On the other hand, it may be, "Because we have had a G-Virus outbreak here at Umbrella, you *must* work at home, and guess what? That means a pay cut."

    I would likely decline the "opportunity" to stay at home in the first instance. (Being at the job is, after all, what I signed on for.) In the second example, if I liked the job, I'd likely agree if I felt the decrease in pay wasn't too harsh. It's not like it's a life-sentence; I always have the option to bounce.

    The truth is, either example is a fantasy-land scenario in my case, because I don't have the type of job that can be done remotely; it's hands-on and eyes-on sort of work, and requires a lot of time-sensitive interaction with others. To be clear, my particular position is essential. However, I am not. I remind myself of this reality on a regular basis.

    Concerning any sort of compensation for to-and-from travel for a job, my thoughts are that this really isn't the employer's responsibility. As I see it, the employee needs to decide beforehand what he or she can live with in terms of travel time and expense; I mean, no one is forcing anyone to apply for a particular job, or live in a particular location.

    Now, as the boss, if I *am* paying the equivalent of someone's daily bus-fare, they better be at least a "Vice-President In Charge Of Something Really Freakin' Important." And that means, you don't get to work from home, Ace. I expect you to show up, and actually, you know, do some real work. (Oh, and when I say "real work" that doesn't include overclocking your secretary and receptionist, either individually or concurrently.) I mean, if you have a parking spot with your name on it, your damn Buick better be in it at least 55 hours every week.
     
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  13. All Apple employees had their public transit expenses comp'd via the company employee benefits. In NYC I believe it was the Metro card unlimited we offered at the time. Granted I am going off of an experience I had over 11 years ago. Still; people you would be surprised what some companies do for people that are not "Vice Presidents in Charge of Anything Really Freakin Important" at the time we extended this not just throughout corporate but to retail as well down to the sales Specialists making $13-17/hr
     
  14. cucaulay malkin

    cucaulay malkin Ancient Guru

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    working from home is harder for me so f**k no
     
  15. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    It is about the individual and the contract you agree to, and when the contract changes, the terms must be neg'd, because the details have changed - but given the option is a simple one, the answer must be simple and dependant on the individual's needs - much like the original neg for the original contract.

    Perhaps another question to add would be "Who here negotiated their employment contract when they were offered their position?" AND I would hope the answer from everyone would be a resounding 'I did', because I would hate to think that people here didn't neg the terms of their contract.

    No sir - it does not work like that, I was speaking in general terms that managers report to directors, and departmental managers operate with a budget to hit the goals/aims of their department, which they cannot extend unless they have permission from their director.

    The job titles in different countries are different, and I really am at a loss as to why you think this is untrue in some way. Do you honestly think the chain of command begins with a temp, and the CEO reports to the part-time cleaners of the toilets?

    C'mon, stop claiming this as floccinaucinihilipilification.
     

  16. Okay, I don't know about the toilet comment but sure I guess. What you just wrote just now above I agree with, toilet comment aside.
     
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  17. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Company saves money thanks to you and your coworkers being at home. Last thing they want is 5~12 weeks in row with large portion of workforce being sick.
    When people work from home, they are no longer cluster that gets infected around same time.

    Now, when working from home, you still have to meet working safety. And have required comfort, utilities. And if you use electricity and your utilities, company has to compensate you for it. (depending on country)

    If company lets you stay home without any change in salary, they are making money.
     
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  18. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Which is why a reneg of the contract is necessary - IF you decide to work from home, but as you will NOT have less money, just a reduced salary, then the negotiation would be a five minute conversation.
     
  19. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Seems like you missed point. As long as you pay for any resources to work from home (which you would use in office otherwise), you have to be compensated for it. That includes 8 hours a day for internet connection. While you may be paying for it yourself even at time when you are not working, it is used for work and data sent received are not going from office of company, but your home.
    Same applies to electricity, water, ...

    Taken down to ground. Would you be portrait artist, your company would supply you with canvas, stand, paints, ... in company owned atelier. It would supply you with adequate clothing which could get "dirty" from paint. And enable you to wash, drink, toilet, ...
    When working from home, they would still have to supply you with supplies that you turn into product. And they would either have to pick your dirty clothing or compensate you for washing it yourself. Fact, that you use your own bathroom to wash your hands and tools has to be compensated too because you are supplying something that is otherwise considered standard requirement to even start the work and it is burden of cost that company transferred to you moment you started to work from home.

    That's as long as company wants you to work from home to their benefit. If it is you who wants to work from home while standard arrangement is office work, you should have adequate environment.
    What you think is right is as bad as if company ask you to use your personal cellphone and data plan for business purposes. (Even if you already paid for unlimited calls/data/...)
    Or if company did ask you to drive 600km a day in your personal car while paying only for gas. (Ignoring that you barely drive 30km a day yourself and insurance=accident risk you have is mainly for their use. On top of it most of wear on your car and need to buy new one or do repairs would be caused by work related use.)
     
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  20. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Not an internet connection - but a leased line with a VPN/WLAN/VDI connection to the office - and yes, the company would pay for that, of course, but not internet connection on a private network for security reasons of course. All other points would be part of the reneg, and again, as this is OPTIONAL and not forced, everything is on the table for the reneg of the contract.

    The company would make sure you are not out of pocket for working from home, but again: this is optional, in that, you have been given the chance to work from home because they trust you to do it.

    Not everyone would get the opportunity - but all that would, would get to reneg their contract.
     

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