POLL: Working from Home, salary reduction. [UPDATE 10TH August 2021]

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by Loobyluggs, Aug 4, 2020.

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Would you accept a pay cut to work from home?

  1. Yes

    10.5%
  2. No

    64.9%
  3. Depends on how much of a pay cut

    24.6%
  1. In some ways, it would be nice if things were or are this way. I've yet to experience this in the US. EDIT: I worked in Australia, I did enjoy my time there immensely back in 2012.

    You could start a company... I am not cracking a joke. These are protections I used to have as a Union member. They shouldn't have to require Union membership, nor be considered protections I'll add but nevertheless...
     
  2. AsiJu

    AsiJu Ancient Guru

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    Exactly.

    Well said if ever. I wish my company (employer) applied this principle to our directors, VPs,...
     
  3. Valken

    Valken Ancient Guru

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    I am working from Home now due to mandated quarantine and limited lockdowns. I did not take a pay cut. Because:
    • Not my employer's business on my travel, attire, or benefits expenses.
    • They also did provide me a for work PC, phone and network connectivity which is out of pocket.
    • Again, personal use is NONE of their business.
    • Also, when you work overtime, do you get paid? No
    • At home, I actually work more, because I am super productive and technically almost on call on the time due to all of the communication required by being out of office.
    That is part of the package of a hire.

    So when sheeple give away their rights and freedom, don't blame China or Russia for your self induced fascism.

    Same work, same pay, regardless of where or who.
     
  4. OT can be a complex issue. Generally my rule of thumb is if I’m on as salary I know I don’t qualify. Executive, administrative, professional and outside sales employees: (as defined in Department of Labor regulations) and who are paid on a salary basis are exempt from both the minimum wage and overtime provisions of the FLSA.

    Otherwise “non-exempt” employees must be paid 1.5 times their regular rate of pay for every hour over 40 that they work in a work week.

    An aside, the FLSA was enacted in the 80s I believe.

    EDIT: I’d mentioned prior this doesn’t apply to Independent Contractors under US Federal law yet doesn’t restrict companies from a like approach with contractors.

    I would add yesterday on August 10th, 2020, a California judge granted a preliminary injunction requiring Uber and Lyft to stop classifying their drivers as independent contractors pending further action by the court. If the courts side against Uber/Lyft it may stand as precedent for more to follow.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2020

  5. Valken

    Valken Ancient Guru

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    I'm not in the US right now but most salary jobs are exempted from OT payments as well.

    So we have to think about how much actual "time" we are putting in.

    I had to correct I did NOT get a work PC, mobile phone or network connectivity which is coming out of my pockets to do WORK.

    To the OP, do not cave in. Work from home or at the office, same pay for same work. Unless you guys like oligarchs putting their figurative knees on your necks as wage slaves.
     
  6. oh poop. well, that took the gust out of my sails as it were lol. Uhmm yeah I should check people's profile pages more. Anyways agreed on the point of Salary positions and OT, everywhere I have worked outside the US that has always been my experience.
     
  7. AsiJu

    AsiJu Ancient Guru

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    Same here (Finland) quite often, salaried jobs are exempt from OT.

    Depends on the field / job though and of course as is tradition here there's always a clause "unless agreed upon otherwise locally".
     
  8. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

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    No. In the long run I prefer to work at the office since it's part of the "daily routine". I've worked from home now since the beginning of March and I'm getting pretty sick of it.
    So if I would be forced to continue working from home forever I'd want the same pay since I'd want to create an office space instead of sitting in front of my gaming computer like I'm doing now.
     
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  9. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    How much would you want then?
     
  10. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

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    Same as I have now.
     

  11. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Well then, I will take away the opportunity for you to work from home and give it to someone else.

    This individual no longer has to sit in traffic, shower, or even brush their teeth (not recommended!) - in addition to that, this hypothetical individual now got rid of their car, so no more car payments, no more car tax (or other government taxes) and of course no more fuel payments! They also get another 1 hour+ in bed each night, meaning they can go to bed later and enjoy more of their life in the evenings. They also get the same pension as you, and get all the other fringe benefits, like gym membership, which they can visit at times when it is not crowded.

    They, in fact, have more money than you, even though their salary is lessened by an amount I cannot disclose to you, because it is part of their contract, not yours.

    Their life is better - yours remains the same. Oh, and they are healthier will much less stress...(think of the 'please stay green traffic lights, please' moments you've had)

    Now, I say this not just to you, but to anyone that cares enough to reply: it was optional, not mandatory, and it would by incredibly myopic and (dare I say) insular of you to miss out on such a great opportunity, for a few percentage points. Those points btw, were open to negotiation...

    Sorry - not taking anything out on you at all, but I must say I am more than surprised that people cannot see the bigger picture here.

    I'm saddened by this.

    *ninja edit...I has just dawned on me...people here are not happy with their job or the money they got now, so, see such a hypothetical situation like this as a chance to get more money?

    Get a better contract if that is the case guys (and gals) or, get another job for more money, maybe? 'cause trying to screw your existing employer who is trying to do you a favour perhaps would not deserve this.
     
  12. jbmcmillan

    jbmcmillan Ancient Guru

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    Maybe in the UK not here every leased space has it's own meter and pays their own electric costs. Same would apply for gas etc. The only thing landlord pays are electric costs for common hallways say if more than one business and elevator (if there is one) maintenance parking lot lighting etc. One assumes they charge enough on leases to cover that with a profit. So if said business is using less it pays less. Constant costs are per square foot dollar amount the lease stipulates. That is how leases are calculated here so if they reduced space and and everything that goes with that there is significant savings.
     
  13. AsiJu

    AsiJu Ancient Guru

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    I must ask:

    why are you so adamant on "selling" this idea forward? You said yourself this is a thought experiment so what's there to be saddened about?

    Furthermore I dare say for many, myself included, this is both a:

    1) matter of both principle and reason (accepting a pay cut on grounds of FWH)
    2) the inner warning going off saying if you accept this now, what do you have to accept next
     
  14. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Yeah, the costs are fixed, mostly, and part of the lease/rental agreement - and calculation can be how much sq feet/metre or just like, for an entire floor. A lower rental would not occur.

    I accept the viewpoint - but it is myopic, purely because it is optional. You would have more money, even with a newly renegotiated reduction and; you would be miles better off as a person.

    It's a better life than the one most have got now: sleep>commute>sleep>commute>sleep>retire>die
     
  15. jbmcmillan

    jbmcmillan Ancient Guru

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    I'm talking about when and if they decide people will be working from home as their lease expires they will find smaller and perhaps move out of a larger center where rents are expensive and save a ton of money. You're blinding your view things change not all costs are fixed at the same rate forever. This discussion has arisen around here lately.
     

  16. Repo Man

    Repo Man Ancient Guru

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    Voted no and the way I look at it is as follows:

    - I ( and most of the team ) appear to be working more efficiently from home due to less distractions in the office
    - I have taken less time off sick because I don't have to stare at the Migraine-O-Vision screens the NHS provides.
    - I have taken less time off sick because I'm not constantly subjected to everyone else's germs.
    - In the hospital I work in, there is VERY limited space, so much so that my team is struggling to fit everyone in ( we work in different offices away from each other or in some cases in different local hospitals ). With most of the team working from home it opens up space for social distancing and eases the pressure on the hospital to provide an office for the entire team, something which we don't have yet but have applied for.

    If anything, I'd like a pay rise as during this whole thing I've made an effort to do a 5-6k walk most mornings since I don't have to worry about the whole morning rituals and commute, I've also began eating better and slowly cutting down on booze and a healthier peon is a longer lasting, more efficient peon! I'm also using my electricity to power not 1 but 2 laptops as my missus does the same job in the same team and they're not exactly modern energy efficient models as they expired in 2017... lets just say the word Dell and leave it at that.

    So yea... gief moar dosh k!?
     
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  17. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Oh, totally - but if the current lease is what it is, there is no 'saving' to be had by offering people the opportunity to work from home, for those that actually get the opportunity to work from home. The assumption is YOU are the only person given the chance to work from home, should you wish to take it: you would need a new contract and a lower salary as a result. You don't have to take the opportunity, but it is there if you want it, albeit after the contract is agreed upon.
     
  18. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

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    To the question:
    Obviously no. I do the same works regardless (actual performance is probably better at home).

    I'd prefer to work at home since commuting is such a pain and I'd rather gain 1h extra sleep - it makes humongous difference. I waste 2h for commuting daily and on top of that I rarely get proper sleep when going to office. I have to wake up quite early since I want to avoid the rush hour and maximise the free time after work.
     
  19. AsiJu

    AsiJu Ancient Guru

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    I agree FWH has benefits over working at office / site.

    The thing is if the option is presented as here, I would not accept.
    Reducing pay due to FWH basing it on "your net income will still be the same" is loose logic and indeed myopic. For reasons discussed earlier.

    However if the company presented it as we need to save costs so we must temporarily cut pay by X % (and provide data to show this). In addition we are offering an option to FWH where suitable.

    That would be different. I want to keep my job so I'll accept the cut and either FWH or continue working on-site / office, depending on circumstances.

    In other words I do get the point but I do not agree it is right or the more intelligent option. The "big picture" is purely company interest and nothing more so it shouldn't be presented as anything but.
     
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  20. sverek

    sverek Ancient Guru

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    I understand pay cut due to company not doing well, however it doesn't matter whether I work from home or commuting.

    Cutting salary only because the person works from home the same hours and deliver same performance is immoral.
    Obviously if employee received additional payment for commute (parking, gas, train ticker, etc..), it makes sense it no longer receives it.
     
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