Phanteks PowerCombo - Use not one but two PSUs in your PC

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Apr 13, 2016.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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  2. DeskStar

    DeskStar Maha Guru

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    Yeah....... Not so sure about this one. I mean Add2PSU adapters have been around for years and give the consumer easy control when adding one or more PSU's to the system. And there is no need for "splicing and or cutting" anything when using them.

    This way you could theoretically connect as many PSU's as you wanted. I have three 1500 watt PSU's hooked up now in my personal rig and have never had an issue with my two $12-20 parts....
     
  3. Andrull

    Andrull Member Guru

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    One use is that it could add redunancy to the system. With two manually connected PSU's, they would each deliver power to different components. But now, if one fall out, the Motherboard, CPU and GPU will still be operational, even if one PSU fall out.

    Kinda like a cheap consumer edition of redunant PSU's on the professional marked. Not exactly something to my own taste, but there are probably people out there that could want something like this.

    But for power distrubution, I can't se why you would want this.
     
  4. HolgerDK

    HolgerDK New Member

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    What in the world do you need 4500W for in a personal computer?
     

  5. rl66

    rl66 Ancient Guru

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    it look neat... BUT:

    -2x1000 PSU cost lot more than a single 2000 from superflower and need twice the space (or 1.5 as it is really big lol)...

    -if you need redundance then pro PSU again is less expensive than 2 mainstream and take less space...

    -if you are manic OCer then again there is wire adaptator that doesn't need cut, melt or anithing at less than 10Euro to do the job...

    so it is really cool looking but i doubd about the success of this.
     
  6. rl66

    rl66 Ancient Guru

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    the PC, the independent phase changing cooler, the heater for not having water on the sensible component, the quad tesla unit (or more if you have a bigger case lol) and the own data server inside the box...

    with all of that maybe the division would work fine ;) (at least plant vs zombies would work fine). :stewpid:
     
  7. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    I agree with HolgerDK's original comment. A computer set up the way you're describing is hardly a PC anymore; it's pretty much just a server. Anything that actually uses more than 2000W I wouldn't dare screw up with my everyday use. I haven't got a virus in years (and I don't use even use Windows Defender) but I still wouldn't want any downtime on such a valuable machine. Just my opinion anyway, I realize some people here will spend insane amount of money and power on a gaming rig.
     
  8. Andrull

    Andrull Member Guru

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    Wait, you don't?

    4,5 kW is the new gaming/OC standard.:nerd:

    Just the peltier elements to the CPU can consume over 2 kW. And with high power GPU's you need at least 0,5 kW per card + 0,4-0,5 kW for the CPU. And a lot other stuff ofc.

    But then again: If the goal is an easy build, usually with low maintance, high efficiency, low cost, and with parts readily avaliable that everyone can build, usually 1,5 kW is more than enough.

    Edit: Also, most people already got a PSU or two that they can use. And compared to a professional PSU that might not even fit the case, don't have all the necessary cables, and/or in total be a lot more expensive.

    And ofc, not as easy to get a hold of.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2016
  9. vase

    vase Ancient Guru

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    ???

    i run an overclocked crossfire system stable on a 760W 80+ Platinum (=92% eff.) PSU
    STABLE. (its yet oversized because the maximum watt drainage i had was ~490-510)
    someone still has to show me where (apart from 3way or 4way sli/xfire) anything above 800/900W is NEEDED. the introduction of SSDs (1-3 Watt max.) and the breaking away of HDD/CD/DVD-drives has already narrowed power usage down to mainly 3 main components that drain:

    - Mainboard (regular 25-40 , high-end 40-80)
    - CPU
    Core i3 55 to 73 W

    Core i5 73 to 95 W

    Core i7 77 to 95 W

    Core i7-E 130 to 150 W

    AMD 2 cores 65 to 95 W

    AMD 4 cores 65 to 125 W

    AMD 8 cores 95 to 125 W

    - GPU

    Low End 25 to 86 W

    Mid End 110 to 164 W

    High End 162 to 258 W

    Top End 240 to 375 W

    includes dual gpu cards

    soooo lets build a top end computer with a titan Z

    80W mainboard
    150W cpu
    375W gpu
    =605W
    +50W "peripherals" (usb, ssd, RAM) where 50W is a real big buffer already
    =655W
    now if you have so much money for a high end rig, you will ofc buy a high end PSU (which is measured by high efficiency & quality of current delivery, not high wattage neccessarily)
    so lets say also to be fair here... it has an efficiency of ~92%
    so 655W has to be 92% of our PSU Wattage.
    that makes our needed PSU -> 712W
    So lets be modest and buy a 750W or 800W for that rig.

    CASE CLOSED.

    (if you build in a second titan Z ... 800 + 375 = 1175, 1200 is ENOUGH, most probably the system will never exceed 1000W in use anyway, even under full load)

    i really would love to go around peoples rigs and just check with a watt-meter how oversized their PSUs are... i bet over 50% of gamers buy that overpriced **** just "to make sure its no PSU fault" as they are told in forums all the time...
    QUOTE: "oh yeah thanks for the tip i bough a new PSU and the game still crashes" :bang: :bang: :bang:
    90% of people have never seen a failing PSU and the symptoms...
    like delayed cold start due to damaged capacitors etc...
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2016
  10. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    @vase
    I understand you said "to be modest, let's say 800W" but just to clarify, it is usually bad practice to get a PSU that just barely meets the estimated consumption of your PC, so even 850W is a safer choice. You usually want to give yourself at least an extra 100W or so of leeway in case of inaccuracies, inefficiencies, brown outs, aging degradation, and so on. There are people do triple or quad GPU setups, where 1500W is needed. There are also those who overclock everything, so if you have a multi-GPU setup with everything overclocked, you can get to 2000W. That in itself is pretty ridiculous, but going beyond that for a PC (even a workstation) is kind of stupid, in my opinion.

    Keep in mind though, there are servers out there that can easily exceed 4000W.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2016

  11. rl66

    rl66 Ancient Guru

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    i definitively agree, i have a big workstation as main PC, quadro and tesla and i don't even reach the limit of my PSU (but ok cooling of the water is 300W... aquarium cooler for cold fishes).
     
  12. orky87

    orky87 Member Guru

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    Furthermore some want to stay within the 40%-60% power draw for efficiency rating or the sweet spot in which case one then needs x2 the PSU power/watts of the actual system draw.
     
  13. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    Most common cause of PSU failures are bad caps. A major cause of cap failure is heat. When you run an "overkill" PSU it should normally run cooler and unstressed and therefore should have longer lifespan. I know I could get by on a good 350w unit easily on my rig, but want peace of mind due to this. Had PSU failures in past and all cap related. Yes, good PSUs with quality Japanese caps will fare better, but still the less-heat-more-durable principle holds as far as cap life is concerned and in general.
     
  14. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Just something to point out - heat in electronics is a product of inefficiency. As with anything that distributes power, the harder you make it work, the more heat it makes. This is why a 750W PSU will not generate much heat if your hardware could otherwise run at 350W. But, if you had a 350W PSU with an 80+ Gold or Platinum rating, the increase in it's efficiency should lower the heat, and therefore increase the lifespan.

    TL;DR, you'd save money getting something with less watts but a higher efficiency rating, than a higher wattage unit that is less efficient, and you shouldn't encounter capacitor issues.
     
  15. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    Although I agree in principle with what you're saying but most PSUs peak efficiency is around the mid-range power draw of the unit. I doubt that a 350w plat unit going full out is much better (may be a couple percentage points) than a good bronze 750 watter at half power. I'll bet the latter would still be running a bit cooler. And of course a 350w may rule out future HW upgrades requiring more power.
     

  16. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Agreed, you're probably right. I'm just saying the 350W gold or platinum may be cheaper while still lasting you a long time.
     
  17. Andrull

    Andrull Member Guru

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    I don't doubt that most, if not almost every normal gaming PC just need a couple of hundrer watts. But then again, sadly only few of us wander into the more extreme, which, of course is what we are talking about when discussing crazy stuff like 4 kW.

    The new gaming/OC standard was of course a bit ironically.

    I've been doing PC-modding and electronics for around 12 years now, and just discussing or building the regular boring stuff that almost everyone with a tiny wee of money and sense can buy and put together is to be honest, a bit boring (like the examples you just mentioned). The newest of tech is fun, but also the most extreme. And that is kind of my point. Most of my computers the last years have one thing in common, and that is that they take all "rules" and guidelines/common PC-knowlege out the window.

    When actually working, and at max power input (a bit unrealistic, but well within it's limits) it probably will burn up your watt-meter. :D And given the awesome computers that I have seen on Guru3D, I doubt I'm alone in this.

    And of course, beeing a electronic engineer, that like to build electronics (like PSUs) from the bottom up, I know my way around power measurements. It is actually pretty important when dealing with such power levels, and calibrating/calculating the most efficient and best performance with a whole range of phases, cooling fluids, temperatures, valves, compressors, peltiers and regulators.

    And best of all, you get an excuse bring out and play with the huge cables, the Fluke 289 multimeter, Fluke thermal camera, Oscilloscope, welder +++ other equipment that you've barely manage to sneak past the wifey. :banana:

    Why would I do **** like this? :pc1: For performance? Neh. It is for fun, and I learn a lot. My computer have actually helped me get more than just one good job. Given it stands out, and get a bit media coverage.

    I don't know what I'm doing, so just go out there and experiment like me. I guarantee it is fun. And not necessary expensive. Fans and computer stuff is so overpriced, you be surpriced how much value you get compared to that. Bought plenty of air condition units for somewhere around 60-120 euros per piece. Just the fan of the units would've cost more in the PC-world. And hey, just bought me 2500-3500W of cooling power (each). And just like that, you are playing on a completly different arena.

    The next step in the future might be to play with some cryogenic coolers, and circulating nitrogen.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
  18. rl66

    rl66 Ancient Guru

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    you can already goes in negative celsius coolant i can already do that...

    i don't do it because i live in a hot country and it cause the same problem than total phase changing or vaccumm cooling (create water on the card, inside the slot and need a heater inside the PC).
    and i don't need to OC so much as i need a zero fail when i use it to work at home.

    the problem with LN is that it may "explode" (to be simple and for some who haven't a chimical licence) if you don't know what you are doing and cause permanent injurie.
     
  19. Andrull

    Andrull Member Guru

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    Sure, sure, it is a whole range of difficulties that you need to address. And a lot of people have the means, but not the stupidity, creativity or time or will to try it out. And thank god to that, becouse if everyone bothered to do like me, it would not be of any fun. :p

    Also, you might have a main PC to do your other stuff. And take a PC (doesn't have to be expensive to to the experimental part).

    There are many more possibilities than just simply use heat to overcome condensation. I've gone from good sealants/isolation, to air drying/cooling of ambient air inside airthight case, to finally, just eliminate the problem 100 % with removing the air (let the PC soak in Hydraulic Oil).

    And it got other bonuses. Less noise from PSU, much better longvity and stability. The oil cools other regions like caps, regulators etc... much MUCH better than air cooling, it also hinders quick temperature changes, and acts as a buffer. It also dampens small vibrations (i.e coil whine, even if you can't hear it).

    LN is dangerous, no doubt. High pressures etc... But there are ways of controlling it without much danger (in comparison to the pro-versions operating at extreme pressures). The idea would be to mostly operate the LN2 at low pressures (there will be more losses, and the cryo-coolers would need to sit in close proxmity of the PC. But sure, it is as I said a pretty long way there. :)

    Edit:
    But yeah, I've got some help from mother nature, that serves me good temps in the winter. But ironically, it's part of the problem, since it's too cold for the compressors to work as intended. :p But I could just use a monstrous radiator outside with some fans.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
  20. Irenicus

    Irenicus Master Guru

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    He doesn't. I'm calling bs on this. Maybe he thinks he sounds manly making this up? No idea
     

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