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Petrol vs Diesel

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by TekkMarine, May 22, 2017.

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  1. Steven Hone

    Steven Hone Paolo the Gun

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    Deisel is now shown to be a poisenous and horrible fuel.

    Engines are expensive to repair due to all the tech required to make that work.

    Petrol is way more fun.

    I have an Audi a3 2016 Saloon S Line with a 1.4L turbo Petrol

    Getting average 40 - 50mpg on normal city type use. 60mpg on highway
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
  2. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    That would generally be included in "cost of ownership"... "Cost of ownership" takes into every dime you'll expect to spend over the life of vehicle ownership, not taking into account repairs as a result of mechanical failures.

    Cost of Ownership = (annual fuel cost multiplied by expected years of ownership) + (annual government imposed taxes multiplied by expected years of ownership) + (annual cost of insurance multiplied by expected years of ownership) + (expected routine maintenance costs multiplied by expected occurrences during ownership) + (cost of vehicle purchase + tax at time of purchased)

    For the record, a Hybrid vehicle will have a higher "cost of ownership" than a standard gasoline powered vehicle if you keep it for the full life of the vehicle.


    The 7.3 Liter is still the most reliable engine ever put in a Ford product.... International knew what they were doing with that engine. The 6.0ltr and 6.4ltr are the least reliable.....lol Also built by International....

    The E-series, which utilizes a Diesel engine, is a "passenger class vehicle" as is the F-series. The T-series (ugh....hate that name) also has an available diesel engine and is also a "passenger class vehicle". The F-350/E-350/T-350 and below, are all "passenger class vehicles". The F-450 is a commercial vehicle.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
  3. IcE

    IcE Don Snow Staff Member

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    SUV's and light duty trucks are still in a loophole when it comes to emission and mileage requirements, as far as I'm aware.

    With that said, diesel is more energy dense than gasoline, and the design of a diesel engine means you can extract more torque with less mechanical effort/cost. The downside is that since a diesel engine is modulated by fuel input, its very slow to respond to changes in load, and unburned fuel is a guarantee. Petrol is much better about this and runs much cleaner, although there's a tipping point when gasoline costs more in C02 for certain applications, namely heavy equipment.

    I think for commuter cars, petrol is always going to be superior. But that's just my opinion.
     
  4. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    Dumped Diesel this time round a few reasons

    Dieselgate pretty much killed any chance of going down one of VW group cars, my last three cars and now my fourth have all been part of the VW group the chances of me buying a Diesel that has had the VW Dieselgate fix and the associated problems that go with it, higher fuel burn, lower power, lower response and potential EGR issues meant a Diesel was a no go.

    I also wanted to go for something with a bit more power than my 170 2.0TDi had. Problem with that is that the only way to get more power out of the Diesel group cars seems to be to go for a much much larger engine. In essence not many Diesels out there around the 2.0L mark that produce over 200Bhp.

    In the end I went for a Leon Cupra with a 2.0 TFSi Petrol, depending on how I drive I'll get 310miles out of a tank (that's a combo of driving like a nut, something having 280BHp allows with ease, and driving in comfort mod, so far haven't used the cars eco mode) used to get around 370miles out of my 2.0TDi and the cost of filling both cars out works out around the same given the higher Diesel cost.

    The reality is that after years of encouraging us to go for Diesels it seems that Diesel cars are now on the hit list. They are loosing value, getting more costly to run (DPF, Ad Blue etc, more complex mechanics) and it seems cities are now bringing in extra taxes for people driving Diesels, you know on top of the road tax, fuel tax and congestion tax you may also now be paying for a Diesel tax.
     

  5. Black_ice_Spain

    Black_ice_Spain Ancient Guru

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    Old diesels are unhealthy as ****, new ones not much.


    Also, you should avoid DPF for city driving
     
  6. TekkMarine

    TekkMarine Maha Guru

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    After a lengthy conversation with the car sales man this just isn't true. It's a weird one, petrol seems to produce more Co2 emissions where as modern diesel engines produce less but contain a mix of chemicals that are more toxic to humans.

    To update the story, another prospect has taken the car right under my nose.
     
  7. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    If I am in a position where I need a car ever again, I'd get fully electric with an air filtration system NASA would be happy with.
     
  8. thatguy91

    thatguy91 Ancient Guru

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    Main problem with diesels like I said previously is the fuel. If you used the right fuel you woudn't likely need a DPF at all. Because of the compression ratio etc, diesel create more NO2 emissions, however like petrol cars this can be resolved with catalytic converters. If you had a long, dual low CPU catalytic this can be overcome, however adding to the cost of the vehicle a bit. That said, since you wouldn't need a DPF this would well and truly covert the cost of a larger cat.

    Unfortunately it's not as easily as that, the main issue would be reluctance or stubborness to move ahead. Maybe should just run on 100 percent biodiesel.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2017
  9. IcE

    IcE Don Snow Staff Member

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    Impossible. We already run our transportation network on a giant oil deficit. No way there would be enough farmland on earth to make enough biodiesel for everyone, even in a hypothetical pre-electric period alone. Truck and bus fleets by themselves are huge diesel hogs. My work fleet uses 80 gallons per unit each night, and we have over 100 units a day on the road. And that's just one small fleet.
     
  10. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    I'm not sure he was suggesting the entire world switch to biodiesel... For a single person, running 100% biodiesel is rather easy. We've had customers that have run 100% biodiesel without any issue, and even managed to help out local "chinese" restaurants in the process... (Not trying to offend anyone of Chinese origin, but the restaurants here typically sell the same food you can find in the local grocery store freezer section. They just cook it for you.)
     

  11. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    There is no "emissions loophole" for Diesel equipped passenger vehicles. If there was, they wouldn't have so many emissions controls to cause problems. Emissions regulations for diesel equipped passenger vehicles are very strict.
     
  12. IcE

    IcE Don Snow Staff Member

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    I was talking about gasoline light trucks and SUV's, not diesels.
     
  13. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Just realised the thrust of your post in reality: you have a 20 mile commute, go electric, you simply do not need a combustion engine -

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...les_and_private_light_goods_vehicles_V149.pdf

    Zero TAX
    Zero Emission
    Zero Fuel Costs

    If you got room for a Solar Panel on your property, well; times' they be a changing for you sir!

    https://www.gov.uk/feed-in-tariffs

    So, the UK government helps you significantly here and it's a gravy train of cash backs and tax breaks - plus, you will sleep better at night. And that's a fact.

    And if none of what I've written here scores a mark for you - next time you go to put fuel in your car and have to deal with queuing for fuel, taking in the toxic fumes, spilling fuel on your loafers, standing right next to several thousand gallons of combustible materials and static electricity everywhere - not to mention the pain and suffering you feel from watching the fuel gauge drain your wallet as it tick-tick-tick-ticks away the money you worked hard for...just think about this: you do not need to be there, ever again.

    It's your money, but owning a combustible engine is just throwing your hard earned money away.
     
  14. kanej2007

    kanej2007 Ancient Guru

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    Diesel f*ck**g stinks!!!
     
  15. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    Yup but get the right car and my god is it a f*ck load of fun but you could of course do a lot worse, you could buy an electric car instead. You can then live happy in the knowledge that you have bought a stupidly over priced vehicle that during it's life time you will never recoup the initial purchase cost over a similar spec combustion vehicle and from birth to death is just as bad for the environment.
     

  16. Barry J

    Barry J Ancient Guru

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    Maybe it does if your behind one, I can honestly say when driving my 2015 Jaguar Sportbrake diesel I have never had that problem. And as it stops the engine when I stop I guess it does not smell then.
     
  17. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    He may be talking about the actual liquid fuel, in which case yeah 100% agree it does and worse if you get even a tiny bit of it on yourself it doesn't matter how much you wash or how much soap you use it seems to takes ages to get rid of the smell.
     
  18. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    OP just wants a personal transportation vehicle to do 100 miles to work and back on a 5 day rotation.

    It wasn't a debate on the environmental impact of combustion engines, just the cost - and here in the U.K., we got tax breaks galore for making a electric vehicle a no-brainer.
     
  19. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

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    Diesels suck. They should ban those.
     
  20. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    In that you would have to have no brain to buy one? Fair enough!

    The factors that typically do not get rolled out when taking in to account the cost of EVs. (EV cost factors are based on the Nissan Leaf since it is the best selling EV on the market)

    - Firstly the initial cost vs equivalent ICE models will never be recoup over the typical ownership period. 3 years in most cases.

    - Second you can either buy the battery, expect to stump up even more cash for that car and hope that nothing ever goes wrong with it because you'll be looking at £5,000 for a new one or you can lease the battery a cost that seems to get ignored by many. How does £70 a month over a three year contract hit you? I could run my 2.0Tdi for a month and over 500miles on £70 a month. Oh and better yet that contract limits you too a nice 7500 miles a year.

    - Third fancy owning a car that will be worth nothing when you come to sell it? Well go for an EV since they are amongst some of the fastest deprecating cars on the market. (3 of 10 in this survey are EV including the best selling EV the Nissan Leaf and ironically a car that usually requires a bomb to have gone off in it to shift it's used sale value the VW Golf.)

    https://www.whatcar.com/news/fastest-depreciating-cars-3/

    It doesn't matter how much you save on fuel, road tax, rebates the reality is you will loose more money when you come to sell that car on than you would on ANY other vehicle. How does 75% of it's initial purchase value sound after only three years? (In money terms that's £20,000 on a car that cost £28,000 brand new.) Tell me did you save £20,000 worth in fuel and road tax over those three years?
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
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