Performance > Tuning > Add Game Profile

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by Eastcoasthandle, Dec 26, 2019.

  1. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    If you add a game profile to TUNING and don't adjust the tuning control for it are you overriding the Global Tuning? It seems like you are.
     
  2. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Seems so from what I am reading of it, haven't tested it but then Wattman is difficult enough without hoping it can hop between multiple usage profiles though it shouldn't really be that difficult but with all the other issues of course there had to be something like this too.

    Another thing that just needs to be resolved but who knows when that will happen.

    EDIT: Short of always adjusting the global profile for the most sensitive app it would be a useful system especially for cases where AMD's drivers act up or the title is either buggy or just incredibly demanding requiring say a higher fan profile or for overclocking a bit more voltage to ensure optimal / stable operating conditions.

    Stuff like Red Dead 2 or Call of Duty Modern Warfare. (First remastered, now remade. :p )
    Some of it might be a indication of the settings not being entirely stable other stuff well that's on the game itself doing something that's causing a weird behavior.

    EDIT: But then Wattman of Adrenaline 2020 has all kinds of weird issues from incorrect fan parameters to undershooting or overshooting set values for clocks and voltage and some strange stuff I haven't quite figured out.
    (Fan profile dropping to lower than set values unless I move the mouse cursor is a new thing, almost like it goes into some zero mode but it doesn't drop that low ha ha.)
     
  3. mtrai

    mtrai Maha Guru

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    Checking this today to verify.
     
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  4. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    Thanks for looking into that. So far removing all profiles has now made my Global Tuning Auto OC'ing stable. Not a single issue last night. This might explain why everything was set to default profile when I start up Radeon. IE: I was in a game profile didn't know it. Then setup clocks/fan, etc. Exit out of Radeon. Go back into Radeon. Now I'm in Global Tuning and don't see the profile I created. But that's another issue.

    Now I will admit I was fiddling around with it and didn't realize I had added MW as a profile to Global Tuning (or did it add it for me??? I don't recall doing that as I didn't know how at the time). And was actually setting OC's with just MW. Which I thought was Global Tuning.
    IMHO, there needs to be a better way to signify that you are actually setting OC/Fan profile for Global vs Game Profile. I mean, now I know but it wasn't intuitive.

    Edit:
    Ok, I can see if you click on the game profile itself and click on Tune Game Performance you are sent to TUNING with COD MW as the main profile instead of Global Tuning. I recall trying to find a way to go back to COD MW profile to it up and wasn't able to. You have to click on Gaming and start over! This is were things got confusing for me.

    IMHO Tabs were better as I could go back and forth.

    As of last night everything seems to be working correctly after removing all profiles. Have you looked into it yet? Do you have profiles in Global Tuning drop down menu? I did and it was MW 2019. Which I didn't know was there. I was setting fan profile etc for just that game and didn't know. So when I went back into Radeon to check my settings in Global Tuning it was on default settings. I was like, "what the...I just changed this".
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
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  5. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    I also noticed that the Auto OC is much lower in 19.12.X vs 19.11.3
    In 19.11.3 I was getting 2050MHz+ temps were around 55C in MW 2019.
    In 19.12.3 I see 2000MHz+ temps around 60C but much lower clock rates in MW 2019.
     
  6. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    There's various bugs or at least issues with what's set and what gets reported back and used by the GPU or drivers and the API for this but I've just set up a simpler profile for now while waiting on the next driver, rebooting dumps several of the settings, idling seems to drop the fan settings and sometimes on exiting a demanding 3D title fan speeds might persist though loading a saved profile (Sometimes has to be done twice.) seems to work around that.

    Clock values can vary around 50 - 80 Mhz below or above from what you set and voltage acts as something of a curve but with the same caveat as the fan settings so once it passes the mid-speeds (Game mode.) and goes into boost it'll immediate go for the highest value though some granularity can be had by setting the lowest clock and voltage value states and making the GPU ramp from this to mid and high but with more problems than 19.12.1 and earlier where it was more precise.
    (Min clock speeds are hard to actually enforce but the voltage range from min to max should be mostly respected outside of the zero state or idle where it drops to next to nothing regardless of settings in Wattman or when it spikes above the max which is also a concern for stability.)

    Speeds also boosting up and down and a bit more in some formerly problematic titles almost makes it seem a bit deliberate from AMD to apply a more aggressive clock sensitivity or what to call it so certain D3D11 issues appear to be hitting the same ups and downs though not as badly as D3D9 does.

    And I also learned this is the shader clocks and not outright GPU core clocks which puts a potential piece of the problem on how the GPU handles clocks and what might be hindering it or restricting it from boosting further but I don't know enough on this to say for sure though that would explain UE4 and Modern Warfare among others as very shader intensive titles and why these are hit a bit and also the stability problems as the card might be boosting or throttling either with thermals or just clocks or require more voltage from a more shader intensive workload than handling other data. :)

    Well there's one GPU core clock speed and the shader clocks operate at the same level AFAIK but the speeds react to the shader clock cycle or something along those lines so it's kinda finicky and sensitive but the entire state here for how this works compared to earlier Power Play "P" states is quite new for me so I've only found some simpler info and basic details on what this is doing so far.


    EDIT: Still only know a small part of how Navi here actually works and what I understand is probably even less than that (Unsurprisingly I suppose for how complex this all is.) but it's interesting though the driver situation is now a bit of a hassle and I hope 20.1.1 will start to really resolve the bigger regressions and problems for AMD's drivers whenever it lands.

    EDIT: I do also need to check the menus a bit and what's applied to what come to think of it after reading a bit more in this topic that might be a thing too for some of the profiles.
    (Well the Ubisoft titles it detects on it's own as those can't be as easily hidden as Steam's games where the add/remove info and removing that usually skips the driver auto adding it though somehow Monster Hunter World is found anyway. :p )

    Layout and usability is a bit cumbersome after all, not broken or anything or bugged but just not very well designed for usability.
     
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  7. mtrai

    mtrai Maha Guru

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    TBH I use an overide for the drivers...which makes it difficult for me to repro a lot of issues. I set everything myself. Unless I am trying to test for a specific issue and use the driver at stock. I push my cards as hard as I can. Game detection is still very spotty IMO. @JonasBeckman I wish I could be more helpful for what you want to know. As you know I say everything I can possibly say.
     
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  8. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    Yeah, I agree with Jonas the layout in profiles is a bit cumbersome to navigate. I do like the overall aesthetics though.

    @mtrai thanks for the advise about Game Detection. Yup, day 2 and all is still fine. It's just not clocking as high as before though.The Auto OC, is now sticking as it should. No issues in games.
    Can you comment more about this "over-ride" that you spoke of? I'm not sure what that is.
     
  9. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    The drivers did make several changes to Overdrive and there's both Navi and the previous GCN GPU's using well I had the name somewhere but Overdrive 7 - 8 (Polaris and earlier, Vega and VII) and what Navi uses which might be similar but it's not quite Power Play.

    It works but it can be a bit tougher to dial in the settings and I assume it's mostly a interface issue where the values set might not quite represent what's displayed and Navi does use a more "floating" system where values fluctuates and changes according to overall GPU load and demand so of course there will be changes as overall workload either increases or decreases and depending on how often the drivers poll this info and how it's sent to and from the GPU and software and all you'll get some differences. :)

    Overrides include the More Power tool and loading and storing a string for the Power Play values through the registry same as what MSI Afterburner uses and what let's see if I remember now it's what Unwinder was critical towards for AMD storing the new values like this though Afterburner has a setting to wipe the information and reset defaults if required though Wattman tries to do as much itself whenever it detects a GPU crash, uncommon shutdown or well the fast-start boot sequence which it also doesn't quite support although that might be for how the OS handles it via hibernation and RAM storage if I recall how that worked somewhat correctly.


    This bypasses Wattman and many of the interface issues though the driver behavior remains which means some fluctuation and testing for stability is still needed and it's also looking pretty clear that 2020 utilizes Navi and earlier GPU's a bit more which means borderline values might need to be dialed down a bit or see a bit extra voltage added which also changes depending on how the GPU is utilized such as differences between geometry, shaders, textures or compute same as how or well at least similar to how CPU clocks might not be 100% depending on what's tested. :)

    Pushed further in D3D12 and Vulkan though some problematic D3D11 titles or possibly just much more demanding at least for AMD has also been useful when it's not a driver bug or game bug causing stability problems or both.
    Not the best at explaining or describing and my understanding of Navi is pretty light and learning new stuff keeps changing how I see the card or how it works but it's fun though I doubt I'll ever fully understand it very well ha ha.

    The interface changes and other driver adjustments in Adrenaline 2020 both 19.12.2 and 19.12.3 does require some extra care and checking so everything works and there's a few weird behaviors or intended changes like the GPU going into idle where the overrides don't seem to apply at all anymore plus existing issues and well probably a bit more but it can be fixed up, sounds like it's working pretty well on your end though I heard the automated systems improved in 19.12.3 whereas manual mode can be a bit iffy.

    Only big problem was that the values boosted a bit too high for 19.12.2 so I assume AMD capped it a bit lower for 19.12.3 while it's getting fixed in a later driver though it seems the value you do get for auto undervolt and auto overclock can be further influenced by a varying GPU workload such as how running a benchmark like Haven in the background can get a better value than if the driver applies a basic value during idle often what seems to be a increase or decrease of 50 to 80 far as I've gotten for results at least.

    That and from saving the default values down from one driver to the next the base settings also changes a bit so instead of 2100 Mhz at 1.251v it's 2000 Mhz and 1.170v then down to 1.118 if I use auto undervolt with OC putting it around 2050 to 2070 though the 2100 value seems to basically have been Wattman capping to max and trying to have boost decide where to stop overriding the actual bios defined values for the GPU however these are actually used.

    Err that's what something like 1700 Mhz something game clocks and 2070 boost was it, might have been the Nitro model though and I think the stocks around 1900 - 1950 though this is often different from what Wattman sets as default especially the voltage which should be 1.2v on all models though SOC voltage is 1.050 on many custom models.
    (Probably for some reason but it seems stable, heats probably not too bad but maybe it's down to different caps and other bits on the PCB or who knows but on the reference boards it's also 1.2 same as the GPU core voltage.)


    EDIT: Then there's the issues with stuck clocks and incorrect speeds for Radeon VII to Polaris and also Fury from what I am reading, seems the 300 series hits some snags as well but there's a lot of reported issues from 19.12.2 and this 19.12.3 driver since it changed so much and Wattman has had it's issues for a while thus why third party programs and simply skipping on using it entirely was and is a popular way to get around having to use it.

    While also allowing access to additional info that can be changed but aren't exposed in Wattman itself like how quickly the fans should react to changes and ramp up and down or more advanced voltage and memory settings though these are also more complicated and should probably be left alone for most users instead of trying to tinker with it.


    EDIT: Oh and while I am critical to what appear to be AMD rushing the Adrenaline 2020 drivers or possibly just not testing them thoroughly enough and the secrecy including the Vanguard involved users (From AMD's Reddit and info on when Vanguard users got the drivers just ahead of it's full release.) they're not completely broken or anything but there are some snags and known issues and regressions so some better testing and perhaps even considering delaying the release would have worked better as I see it but what's done is done, it's not that troublesome to revert to a earlier driver thanks to DDU.

    It can be fixed and hopefully it won't be taking AMD too long once things start up again after New Years now. :)

    Issues with the black screen and hardware acceleration problems regressing from 19.12.1 would be nice but there's Wattman, Radeon Settings Next interface and usability and the issues with older but still supported cards and systems like the VR breakage, games no longer working at all and ReLive and such that also is confirmed and easy enough to replicate that needs to be looked into.

    HDR, FreeSync, Enhanced Sync, Chill and the overlay and more too.

    Still going through the AMD Reddit, this forum and sources like OCUK's forum to try and get a bit of a overview of how Adrenaline 2020 is working, can't really test everything either but it'll be interesting to see how much the 20.1.1 driver will be resolving whenever it comes out and what's next after that.
    (HDR and FreeSync might also be down to Windows 10, software such as how some games do HDR or "HDR" for what's going on in a few titles and the display hardware for FreeSync problems so that's a thing as well.)



    Well that bits separate from this topics focus on Wattman and the profile behavior from global and title specific profiles, for my own experiences it does at least seem like re-applying the profile on reboot is needed for some of the settings to actually take instead of just looking like they're set for how Wattman reports it but it seems the profile settings do function and don't overwrite or replace the global ones.
    (But it could also be that initially the settings use some idle values and loading the profile sets the lower state values as active, more stuff to test then!)

    This idle thing is a odd one too and it's weird how just moving the mouse cursor is enough to kick the GPU into active mode but it does confirm that the settings are applied although it then goes back to idle when say watching media though the only real effect is somewhat higher GPU temps as the system is under low workload conditions which isn't too big of a deal.
    (Although on GPU's with zero RPM support the temps could get a bit higher until the fans do kick in instead of a constant operation even if it's at lower fan speeds.)


    Hmm guessing the driver isn't actively tracking mouse though and it's more due to the desktop or DWM and possibly CPU activity hitting some percentages registering as activity for this not entirely sure. :)

    Seems likely though that it's related in some what (More CPU fun stuff with Navi? Heh well it's bit different from the low clock issue here.), wonder if that's a change in behavior going into idle mode or something but also monitoring CPU for when to kick the GPU into at least low clock state instead of idle which also applies the first fan state settings instead of using that for the idle state as before.
    (And instead it's possibly just using the bios values before this goes in and overrides these.)

    EDIT:
    Eh just some random thoughts and ideas on how things are going with Adrenaline 2020 here, some of it's probably working as intended and other stuff might be down to the UI layout changes and how to get stuff working and applied for where everything's at and ensuring it's all applied and set up now with this new interface and all.

    Or use of third party programs and seeing how that goes though per-profile it's probably going to be either Wattman or Afterburner but then Wattman might interfere with Afterburner if the user isn't careful to ensure it's not trying to override anything by keeping it to default or resetting it so it's not loading anything after MSI Afterburner at least.

    And for More Power I assume that's similar too and making sure Wattman isn't modifying the custom set power play table and info after that's been set and is loaded in.

    For the global profile that is, not sure if it can actually do application specific settings and how that would work if using a mix of More Power and Afterburner which probably isn't the best for how AMD's API might be acting up getting multiple values for what it's applying and when.
    (Or how to say, maybe they can be compatible but it seems like a potential problem source too if anything acts up.)


    This is getting fairly lengthy as is, good to hear it seems to be working though. :)
    (Even if it's using somewhat lower values now.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2019
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  10. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    You do have me intrigued about using AB to wipe the information and reset defaults. But like you not sure how stable AB is with this new driver. I thought AB put wattman to sleep sort of speaking so that there are not conflicts like that.
    Is anyone using AB with 19.12.3? That's the real question.
     

  11. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    You can aways set the OC via WattMan and save it for game.
    I have like this for BF1 & BFV (You have Tab with OC* for every game, save/load possible).

    *Tune Game Performance.

    Or Alt-Tab from Game and set the OC by OverdriveN Tool -> it will overwrite game default.
    Should work NP for Navi.
     
  12. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    Unfortunately that's the very thing I had some issue with. Right now everything works when I just tweak OC for Global and don't add Profiles
     
  13. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Seen users that have reported issues with Afterburner but I do believe it is compatible overall though Radeon Settings and all it changes might be acting up a bit though there is a setting specifically for AMD which will remove the state of the GPU that Wattman or AMD's driver simply just writes into registry which I take to mean the PowerPlay table and then this gets applied on reboot though if so More Power or other utilities that modify that should also work though you would have to store and load in a default Power Play setting that has been saved prior to doing any modifications. :)

    Pretty certain I saw Unwinder confirming in a post somewhere here (19.12.3 or the 19.12.2 topic?) that Afterburner works with Adrenaline 2020 too which should confirm it's compatible and it's third party program specific and not AB specific for any issues but it's been a while now since I used the software myself due to Wattman and OverDrive being a bit sensitive and prone to changes and breaking compatibility so just dealing with Watt(TF)Man though I do like what OverDriveNT and the recent More Power utilities allows for and exposes additional settings for advanced tweaking or just some tuneup like the fan settings although that still doesn't leave the whims of whatever the driver decides to do such as the very hit & miss fan settings for example. (Bring those up a bit but they're also about the easiest to test and confirm that yeah it kinda works but it also kinda doesn't quite work as well as it should heh.)
     
  14. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    @JonasBeckman
    afterburner erase saved startup settings. Hmm, enticing.
     
  15. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    I think the little "?" icon next to the setting in MSI Afterburner had a tool-tip describing it much better than I could do but yeah it's stored into the registry and Afterburner would then remove that which I presume would help with troubleshooting and also compatibility not trying to force some modified settings immediately on boot-up which also in effect makes Afterburner and loading it's profile and settings override when that starts up to work as expected and since it's doing I think it's using offsets for settings like voltage or clocks you're not getting the problems with applying a higher than supported or stable value to a above-default setting that Wattman / AMD's drivers preserved. :)

    Not the best at explaining but something like that and from a quick check the compatibility problem appears to have been related to screen flickering which I guess could be AMD Radeon Settings hooking into the Afterburner processes itself such as the changes to the overlay but I'm not sure and it could be something else causing that, seen reports of flickering and others having it work fine so not entirely sure what causes it to occur on some systems.
     

  16. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    Ok, re-tried MSI A/B and it works flawlessly. No issues whatsoever! I notice that it defaults to 1202 instead of1200 but other then that I've been gaming at around 2040-2050Mhz at 1830Mhz mem for well over an hour, no issues ( i use 1200mV with 40% power limit though). I haven't used OSD though. I setup everything like I normally do and I use MSI AB Hardware monitor, detached, and simply just that after a few matches. I wanted to mark some of the temps/gpu frequency, etc but for some reason I can't on hardware monitor. But oh well, no biggie it works!

    Edit:
    One thing though I'm not seeing a numeric value for Temp Limit. Not sure if that matters or not.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
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  17. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    Ok, 2nd day using A/B and it's working just fine. I have to be careful using Power Limit as it can really push Temp 2 up a bit. It's fairly easy to get over 2000Mhz consistently with an overclock and setting a default clock rate is just as good. e temps in check for me. (80c vs 90c). It's literately 80-81C for edge temp (aka Temp 2)

    Now I will look at framerates. Now that I know clock rates are now stable. I can now concentrate on performance. Thank @JonasBeckman for pointing me in that direction. :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
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  18. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Yeah the power limit as I expected it to do is that it allows the GPU to draw more power as needed but what it actually does is to make the GPU draw more power and then this can be used if required although a full 50% is a hefty increase so 10 - 20% and checking the GPU's boost behavior is a good start and then depending on clock speeds more can be needed when going into OC territory where the difference between 200w and 300w can make a difference. (+50% though the Navi GPU's vary depending on models and bios settings often between 180w draw to I think 220w something?)

    It does make a difference in heat too, I can hit upwards of 80 junction at full 50% and a target clock rate of 2050 thus with the way the boost works at generally -50 the GPU is now constantly at 2 Ghz instead of swaying around 1900 - 2000 but I can do the same at 20% so the extra is just wasteful and now it's 70 Celsius junction and something like 50 - 55 edge (15 - 20 degree difference when the GPU is under load, often close to edge temps but it starts separating once the card is working under some heavier conditions.)

    Still well within the limits of what the card can do but the fan profile and bios setting for target temperature and such acts up so it should be pushing 60% fan speed keeping around 85 degrees junction temp it is actually pushing 80% fan speed going up and down from almost inaudible (So around 30% speeds or less.) to close to full speed where yeah near 3000 RPM this GPU gets loud! :D

    Keeping it around 70 - 75 degrees C and what I think is a fan target of 76 Celsius and it's behaving, junction target is actually 106 or 108 C as I remember though it's never hit above 90 which is pretty good as that's keeping below 80 degrees edge temps and the GPU is operating really well with that. (VRMs, memory and all that not seeing any extra from the additional heat also.)


    EDIT: Keeping the fans around 40% instead of 50% also works, well within what the card can handle and fairly silent until the Wattman settings act up and it starts accelerating anyway but the card is performing well although I am also often undervolting and underclocking the GPU when not testing to see how far it can go. :p
    (The performance difference outside of benchmarks made it a pretty easy choice here for how little actual performance is impacted over power consumption and temps which can be significant.)

    Good to see Afterburner doing a good job, still reading mixed reports on how it's doing with Adrenaline 2020 but this does confirm it works quite well with these drivers.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
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  19. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    Good Idea. I will keep stock clock rang with 0% Power Limit. And then use 20% for my overclock. I've been using the Hardware Monitor (have to alt-tab out of game though). I simply don't have Monitor enabled for OSD. As I prefer this method better (I can view a history).

    As for the fan I adjusts fan speed for Temp2 instead of regular temps. So it's a bit more aggressive.
     
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  20. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Hmm interesting as I assumed the GPU was pretty locked into scaling according to the memory junction temperature sensor following the fan curve somewhat until hitting bios or coded limits where it will ramp up to avoid issues or might be going into a lower idle or almost off state. (Or actual off state for the fans if zero-fan is supported.)

    Neat idea though to use I assume Afterburner to set it to follow a different sensor and scale with that and it sounds like a pretty good method as even the stock cooler and it's 40% target fan speed generally stops around 95 - 100 Celsius core junction temps so a manual fan curve or a manual curve together with a custom cooler design shouldn't get close to 100 let alone the 110 critical value for this sensor. :)

    Every GPU's a bit different but AMD's pushing the defaults pretty close so well for me 10 to 20% stabilizes the boost clocks and minimizes any fluctuation but if the card is close to the limits and starts hitting a wall then some extra could be required to push into 2050, 2100 or 2150 boost speeds or possibly higher but I would expect a modified power-play table and higher voltage to be needed here when trying to reach and maintain 2.1 Ghz speeds.

    Other way around is a bit different though at least from my own testing, downclock and whether under- or over-volted moving the power limit slider into the negative will drop speeds even though there should be no problem maintaining the lower clocks with less power drawn.
    (Though this also applies to boost which even at very low values it'll often be within a 50 Mhz lower value of the actual target clock speeds so it might just be how it operates even when there's no limits.)


    Bit of a lengthy post for just basically monitoring and confirming there's benefits of pushing the slider higher and seeing clocks either normalize or increase though I find the general suggestion of just maxing it (20% on a 5700, 50% on a 5700XT including the 50th AE edition.) to be a bit incorrect although if the heat isn't a issue it shouldn't affect anything else either from increasing this further. :)

    (Well as long as the system can handle the higher power draw of course and the card can scale down to a lower speed if using a lowered setting for it.)
     

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