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PCIe SSDs slowly replacing SATA3 SSD

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. Evildead666

    Evildead666 Maha Guru

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    yeah, It reads like I was meaning vertical, like a chewing gum stick on its end, but i was meaning on its side, like memory slots, yes :)
     
  2. Evildead666

    Evildead666 Maha Guru

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    MLC and TLC also have this problem.
    Its due to the number of memory channels iirc.
    There are generally 8 memory channels per ssd, and when you fill up half the drive, you basically lose half of the controllers, because those chips are full.
    edit : Its actually because when near full, you have partially filled sectors in the flash chips, and to fill that flash up, it has to copy the actual data, add the new data, and write back. A lot more than just writing.

    The problem is only with writes iirc, although I could be wrong.
    Reads should be just fine, no matter how much the drive is full.

    edit : https://www.howtogeek.com/165542/why-solid-state-drives-slow-down-as-you-fill-them-up/
    Link to explanation of why ssd's get slower as you fill them up.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
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  3. zig11727

    zig11727 Active Member

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    I use SATA SSD's in a caddy system on my PC this way I have separate SATA ssd's with different builds of Windows. This wouldn't be possible with M2 SSDs
     
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  4. Luc

    Luc Member

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    Now, I don't need another M.2 NVMe, mine is fast and big enough, but my other storage needs are based on reliability, density and price, as my 3 HDD, and none of them saturates a Sata 3 connection, nor a dvd reader does.

    So, if we are planning on gaming or working on budget, I don't get why we need so many NVMe. If the answer is yes we need it, then there exist HEDT platforms with many M.2 slots, where to throw the money.

    For me the balance is having an ultra fast drive for the OS, programs and on course workloads, and many other many TB big storage discs for data that will last the more the better, and save enough money for the rest of HW, SW, taxes, food, etc.

    My case and opinion.

    PS: AM4 platform always keeps 4x lanes for M.2 from the CPU reserved.
     

  5. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Well, that sure is a bit elitist...
    You can be a hardware enthusiast without buying into "latest and greatest".

    I agree with all of this. We're reaching a point where there's only 2 reasons to want multiple drives:
    1. More capacity than what a single drive is capable of storing.
    2. Redundancy.
    For the vast majority of M.2 users, a single drive is (or at least can be) sufficient. IMO, RAID1 is a waste of money for NVMe drives in general (regular compressed backups are a more sensible choice). RAID0 will overall hurt everything that gives M.2 a superior performance advantage over SATA, so if all you care about is large capacities with good sequential read/write performance, might as well go with SATA.
    So all that being said, since M.2 drives aren't hot-swappable or quick+easy to remove, I really don't understand what the point is of having many of them. You could argue "one could be used for a cache drive" but at that point why don't you just use one big cache drive and then use all SATA storage? The end result will be mostly the same at that point.
    I find a NAS is a great way to store everything that doesn't demand high performance, like media and documents.
     
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  6. Luc

    Luc Member

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    Shure, I will get one in another place, maybe at home, to backup important data in different places to avoid disasters :eek:
     
  7. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Actually I meant for just everyday use, not just backups. You can mount network drives to be treated/recognized as another hard drive. But yes, they're great for backups too.
     
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  8. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    OMG - wife card !!!
     
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  9. Devin Johnel Goss

    Devin Johnel Goss New Member

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    I have two m.2 NVME slots on my boards but if i try using both in conjunction with my GPU the second m.2 NVME slot uses less lanes. So yes, they are taking it into account but on our backs. I am not going to use M.2 SATA due to "slower" speeds. That tickles me you even mentioned it, almost as much as seeing people driving really fast vehicles in the US. Yea, I have the headroom but I am limited to 60mph, not giving into that marketing technique.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  10. Devin Johnel Goss

    Devin Johnel Goss New Member

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    Yea Wifi card, the only way to get decent speeds my friend. ASUS PCE-AC88 is what I am currently using until AX becomes available. You cannot get better reception, especially with some of these build in on mobo ones.
     
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  11. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    Yeah. I am using ASUS PCE-AC68 which is enough for my ISP tariffs.

    As for SSDs I am happy with my SATA SSD.
     
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  12. Dribble

    Dribble Active Member

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    On Intel there's a difference between cpu pci lanes for the gpu to use and motherboard pci lanes. My 8700k has 16 cpu pcie lanes for graphics and they are tied to the gpu pcie slots. I also have 24 for the chipset (which is effectively connected to the cpu by a additional 4 pcie lane link). Only the gpu uses the 16*cpu lanes, and everything else goes on the chipset which with 24 has plenty although you might loose the odd SATA port if you run your nvme on 4*.

    note: I suppose if you plugged in an add on card into the 4* pcie slot then that's going to drop your main gpu to 8*, but I am assuming you are just using the nvme slots on the motherboard which use the chipset lanes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
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  13. EspHack

    EspHack Ancient Guru

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    i wonder how much software progress we need before nvme shows a substantial improvement over sata3

    ssd are now only twice as expensive, 1tb hdd is around 50$ vs 90-110$ for ssd, we are almost there...
     
  14. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    I don't particularly care if it's PCIe or SATA, I just like the M.2 form factor.
     
  15. Devin Johnel Goss

    Devin Johnel Goss New Member

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    I don't understand your statement above. NVMe already show a substantial improvement over SATA3. My best SATA gets 520 whilst my NVMe gets around 3700
     

  16. r3claim3r

    r3claim3r Ancient Guru

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    Nothing wrong with SATA 3, if the most you're doing is gaming. My 4 TB Samsung 860 Evo does just fine.
     
  17. fredgml7

    fredgml7 Active Member

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    Sata 3.0 SSDs are good enough to me performance wise, but I'm considering to buy a NVMe just for boot drive when I upgrade (price will tell).
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  18. RzrTrek

    RzrTrek Ancient Guru

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    They both work just as fine for regular use and gaming, but there are obviously more benefits with the smaller form factor and not having to use 2 cables for every drive.
     
  19. Devin Johnel Goss

    Devin Johnel Goss New Member

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    Look for used ones in a Microcenter if you have one near by.
     
  20. FatBoyNL

    FatBoyNL Ancient Guru

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    You're missing the point here. M2 SATA has no real advantages whatsoever and needs to die off quickly :mad:
    We just need more PCIe lanes ;)
     
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