Patriotism

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by Palerider, Sep 6, 2011.

  1. scheherazade

    scheherazade Ancient Guru

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    Amusing [to me] anecdote : Chauvinism IS [excessive] patriotism/partisanship (literally)

    When someone calls someone a "Chauvinist", they're usually thinking the word means something other than what it means.

    The word tends to be used in a looser sense of : heavily biased person.
    When used with the qualifier "male" (i.e. "male Chauvinist"), you it can specify that it's a reference to sexual bias rather than national/political bias.

    So when a girl calls a guy a "Chauvinist", I laugh a little inside.

    Sure... it's minor. But still entertains me.

    -scheherazade
     
  2. Dustpuppy

    Dustpuppy Ancient Guru

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    Unfortunately the word honor has left our lexicon. When somebody says they are proud to be an American they may mean they are proud, but they may also mean they are Honored to be an American.

    I may say I am proud of my work, but in proper language I am really conveying the idea that "My work is central to my honor and I imbue it with the integrity of my character. If my work is poor it is an insult to my character and honor."

    At least that's what I think we're trying to convey here.
     
  3. Year

    Year Ancient Guru

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    without turning this into a religious debate, i don't believe in gods, deadly sins, boogiebears or anything supernatural.

    what i do believe is that people should do whatever they want and feel happy about it as long as they don't hurt anyone, if Patriotism makes people happy, then by all mean they should feel proud of their country even if its ruled by a tyrant. ;)

    as for the deadly sins, god, the bible etc

    Wrath is deadly sin right? and yet in the bible you read "the WRATH of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men"

    as you can see even God is a sinner, so go ahead and sin all you want too lol

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  4. Passion Fruit

    Passion Fruit Ancient Guru

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    That's the thing though, being in the army once stood for something. You were fighting FOR your country and your people. WWII was the last war that was actually fought to protect ones borders and way of life, at least for the world powers. Now all the armed forces do is fight battles and wars for the greedy and the controlling, not for freedom.

    I'd never be used as a tool to fight someone elses battles. The day my country comes under attack and calls on me, i'd gladly fight, but not like it is now. So many people think they're protecting their country... but they're just invading other peoples because someone says they should. Puppets.
     

  5. Kaleid

    Kaleid Ancient Guru

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    PATRIOT, n. One to whom the interests of a part seem superior to those of the whole. The dupe of statesmen and the tool of conquerors.
    __
    PATRIOTISM, n. Combustible rubbish read to the torch of any one ambitious to illuminate his name.

    In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first.
    - Ambrose Bierce
    __
    Patriotism has a sicker brother though - nationalism:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsPDT5qHtZ4
     
  6. Dustpuppy

    Dustpuppy Ancient Guru

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    IMO a true patriot loves his countrymen not merely his country.

    doesn't mean you love *everybody* but patriotism in that sense is a broader version of loving your neighbor as yourself.

    A man who rolls over on a grenade isn't a hero because he died for some banker who ****ed things up, he's a hero because he saved the man next to him. Same deal with patriotism, it's only a virtue when it's brought about out of caring for your fellows, otherwise it's a tool for tyrants.

    (eg old timey movie, sgt york)
     
  7. hallryu

    hallryu Don Altobello

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    Patriotism without an understanding of what your Government is up to and what it stands for = Pre-war Nazi Germany.

    Patriotism with knowledge of our Governments actions = A sense of distrust and bewilderment about the amount of lies, misinformation and propaganda peddled by the self serving political elite. Eg. Dodgy Dossier and the war on terror!
     
  8. *Bio*

    *Bio* Master Guru

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    I wish i was american sometimes you guys have so much pride

    i feel my countrys lost its identity meh..
     
  9. Passion Fruit

    Passion Fruit Ancient Guru

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    Indeed, i agree whole heartedly, but in modern times, the reason that troops are abroad is because some banker made it happen. The man rolling on the grenade shouldn't be there to sacrifice himself in the first place. So many people join the armed forces blind... it isn't a symbol of protection anymore, it's just another tool for the power hungry to abuse.
     
  10. Dustpuppy

    Dustpuppy Ancient Guru

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    The army has always been abused. There are examples of wars such as WW2 where it was used rightly but you'll find it impossible to find any 100 year period in history where a *powerful* nations army was not used to augment or protect its finances.

    For example, right before ww2 we fought WW1. Consider the causes of that damn war and how it was fought. Pompous officers fluff with military pageantry sending waves of infantry into machine gun fire and calling men cowards who refused to march.
     

  11. Jonnyboy

    Jonnyboy Ancient Guru

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    Personally I don't have much pride at all in my country for many reasons and seeing a useless president get elected for two reasons but going to keep my opinions to myself,and he spends trillions in like 1 week on nothing or things that shouldn't be getting funding so I don't really have any pride in this country till it gets a worthy leader.I wouldn't even sign a draft form id burn it instead cause I won't fight for some thing I don't believe in.
     
  12. Dustpuppy

    Dustpuppy Ancient Guru

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    Right now dodging the draft might not seem like a big deal, but if there's a really really big war then they'll clamp down on dodgers. Best thing to do if you think that's coming is go into engineering or similarly high skill career.

    Personally I'm past the age of the draft, but I've been thinking about creating a pacifist paper trail in case I ever have kids (etclarify: for them not for me, if their parents had pacifists tendencies that may count as "training"). I'm not worried about the current situation, but 10 years from now I got no idea what the world will look like and zero trust for any of our brilliant leaders. I can't say that I support civil disobedience presently, but I believe one should always be prepared for it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  13. KCjoker

    KCjoker Ancient Guru

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    Well I've just always considered myself a patriotic American but I think everyone should be patriotic to where ever they're from. Just because I'm proud to be an American doesn't mean I think people from other countries are beneath me....this isn't grade school where you think you can only elevate yourself by lowering others. That's something I wish the crazy left wing dems here should learn and stop name calling just because they don't agree with their view.
     
  14. __hollywood|meo

    __hollywood|meo Ancient Guru

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    im bringing up the distinction because there is more than semantics behind an emotion or emotional state of being/feeling, and an extreme, end-of-spectrum bastardization of it. you are talking about the latter while condemning the former all-encompassingly. you have given vague examples of how the latter rears its head in our society and expect this equivocal red herring/strawman combo to convince anyone that an innocent emotion is inherently negative. the only concrete reasoning you have for this is to say it is "selfish", but you speak inaccurately along the same fallacies by doing so; it is concerned with self by its nature. selfish is something else entirely. the distinction needs to be made.

    im not proving anything to myself, i told you i dont debate from emotion nor do i feel patriotic in much respect. i simply dropped in to poke many, many holes into your poor excuse for reasoning, much akin to a drive-by shooting. you proceed to claim i am confused. adorable, yet baseless...remind me never to engage in any intellectual exchange with you again, newbie.

    [​IMG]

    i agree with you very much on that point
     
  15. Nerus

    Nerus Member Guru

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    Cute retaliation but as always irrelevant and baseless. Feeling better yet, child? If find it hilarious that you make assumptions of what I meant then create a whole irrelevant argument on speculation. You had a discussion with yourself essentially. Fail again my friend I am enjoying your nonsense.

    The only point I ever had is that pride is a slippery slope. And I did mention something like being proud of your son's achievement is of course a okay. Yet you went on to make a complete buffoon out of yourself. Bravo child, bravo. throw another tantrum to prove something to yourself.

    Had an epiphany, if I put you on ignore I won't have to deal with your tantrums :D Farewell bud
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011

  16. Palerider

    Palerider Ancient Guru

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    Me thinks Phat cat is back under a different user name.....
     

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