Patriotism

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by Palerider, Sep 6, 2011.

  1. __hollywood|meo

    __hollywood|meo Ancient Guru

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    ill just leave this here

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    being prideful of yourself is a sin. having pride in something else entirely...is something else entirely.
     
  2. Xendance

    Xendance Ancient Guru

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    Could we keep the word "sins" out from this tech oriented forum? :p
    It sounds like something you teach to kids.
     
  3. WhiteLightning

    WhiteLightning Don Illuminati Staff Member

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    dont think patriotism exists im my country. unless the topic is football :p
     
  4. JohnMaclane

    JohnMaclane Ancient Guru

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    What about queens day? You guys take that pretty seriously.

    Well I'm not a massive patriot, I agree with most here that blind patriotism is bad. The notion that one nation state is better then the rest is bull****, also however there are accomplishments which should receive due respect.

    In my country I feel 'Patriotic' on republic day when our government told NATO and the British empire to go **** themselves, when our government of the 70s introduced the most vital aspects of social security such as free medical care, free schooling etc and I felt especially proud last may when our voting population broke out of its church induced coma by introducing divorce (finally).

    I will also add that I will feel more proud when the constitution is reformed and the state religion abolished completing the separation between church and state.
     

  5. WhiteLightning

    WhiteLightning Don Illuminati Staff Member

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    its not serious. we really celebrate the birhtday of the queen's mom. and many people just see this day to get drunk and party. i think allot of people are more happy to have a day off , instead of having certain feelings towards the queen.
    recent polls showed that many people dont want the queen no more. they spent way too much money, while the common workers are struggling to get round every month.
     
  6. JohnMaclane

    JohnMaclane Ancient Guru

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    Hell man I agree wholeheartedly, I do not like monarchies but made an exception for the dutch.
     
  7. Nerus

    Nerus Member Guru

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    I thought somebody would say that, but pride is an inward feeling somehow connected with yourself, you don't feel pride when opressed people free themselves of tyranny. You feel proud of your kin, you feel proud of your country, you feel proud for your self. Entirely selfish emotion of self-pleasure.

    OP's definition of patriotism is not even correct as the common way to define patriotism always has to do with your devotion to own country.

    This thread as many said before did have good intention at heart but patriotism is a very negative word and sticks out like sore thumb for me.

    Edit: Hmm well I am not UK citizen, just a resident. I wouldn't use word patriotism, but I like that the UK has far more enlightened and tolerant people than where I come from.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2011
  8. PR-0927

    PR-0927 Ancient Guru

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    Simple for me. I support the U.S.'s stated values. I agree with the legal and policy structure way more than I do with any other "significant" nation.

    That being said, it doesn't mean that the stated "ideology" of the U.S. is always followed. It's something that needs massive improvement. Biggest irritation to me is the wackos on the right who want to mix religion and government - that's a big no-no to me (for a variety of reasons - one being that it's un-American, another being that I despise religion), and I'd be willing to go to arms to prevent the meshing of religion and government. That **** needs to stay private.

    I could never be proud of a country with official religious affiliation (no matter how small), like the U.K. Nor am I fond of monarchs, no matter how limited their power (I see it as undeserved privileges to be royalty).

    Plus, I was born here, and the U.S. is the world's most powerful country, culturally and militarily. Economically it has the largest economy. There's something in there to be proud of.

    :p

    Also, I would never trust any other nation to be a world hegemon. The U.S. certainly screws up stuff a lot, and a lot of atrocities have been committed by our actions. But I see U.S. hegemony as the best alternative to all other nations (especially the rising powers like the BRIC - Brazil, Russia, India, and China - I would never want them to dominate world affairs).

    This all being said, there is a fine line between patriotism and nationalism. And I typically see nationalism as dangerous, if not bordering on it.

    And for randomness' sake, I'll mention that my parents and my relatives are all from India. Means nothing to me. I have no loyalty to India. I don't identify with it, but I do certainly have an association to many people there, and to history there.

    - PR-0927
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2011
  9. Salsoolo

    Salsoolo Active Member

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    yeah i read some stuff on royals in britain's history, but yes i also think that the new generation of royals are leechers :D. a big difference between the past and present times imo.
    after all, if they dont rule anymore (lies imo), all what is left for them to do is leeching. :)
     
  10. __hollywood|meo

    __hollywood|meo Ancient Guru

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    i used it because he did. im an atheist. it felt gross to type...

    youre confusing having pride with being prideful. i dont like repeating myself
     

  11. Nerus

    Nerus Member Guru

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    Pride is an inward directed (feeling) emotion that exemplifies either an inflated sense of one's personal status or the specific, mostly-positive emotion that is a product of praise or independent self-reflection.

    I don't like to repeat myself either.

    You can dress a pig in an armani suit, it will still be a pig.

    You are proud only if you affiliate it with yourself. Semantics do not matter.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2011
  12. __hollywood|meo

    __hollywood|meo Ancient Guru

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    protip: avoid attempting to make a point by copying wikipedia.

    you obviously enjoy repeating yourself or you wouldnt keep stating that pride is rooted in arrogance. pride is feeling satisfaction in something that reflects credit upon you. pride is synonymous with an extrapolated or direct sense of self respect. its not an inherent shortcoming - however it can be twisted into something unhealthy and egocentric...hence it only becomes a problem when you are "prideful" to a fault.

    edit: ergo theres nothing wrong with being patriotic on principle
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2011
  13. Palerider

    Palerider Ancient Guru

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    Seems to me that if a man is so faithful that he's worried about an American sinning by being proud of America,that man would understand it's his God's job to judge them, and not his.
    'course this isn't a religious debate is it?
     
  14. Nerus

    Nerus Member Guru

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    I do not keep stating it, I mentioned it in the previous comment, if you don't like wiki, copy and paste oxford dictionary definition.

    You on the other hand make a point of repeating the same mistake of semantics. We get it you want to justify the way you feel, good for you.

    If you can not see the bigger picture which I am trying to explain to you being that pride is something to do with one-self.

    Shall we drag the cold war into the pile? What was promoted? Patriotism. Pride of ones country. I am getting tired of you missing the point entirely and using the straw man technique.

    EDIT: As for original comment, I am not religious, but american population is quite religious, I merely pointing out a funny coincidence that even though they're so religious they are also so patriotic, which in their belief is a deadly sin as patriotism is pride and oh deary don't start with at what "quantity" pride becomes bad, that's not the point, ain't nobody is saying being proud that you child won in a football match is bad.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2011
  15. __hollywood|meo

    __hollywood|meo Ancient Guru

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    im not particularly patriotic. i dont make arguments from my feelings, but on principled rational objections. oh, and idgaf about semantics :p theres as much of a distinction between a generic feeling of pride, and being prideful...as there is between having confidence and being arrogant.

    i never denied pride relates to the self. reading comprehension, wat is it? my prior post clearly states wat pride is. im not strawmanning anything, you are by claiming im missing the point. ive addressed your point already, or lack thereof.

    you have no legit response, you'll just continue to rail against an ambiguous, harmless emotional state because you have objections to the actions that have arisen from those who bastardize and twist it for their own gain, for selfish purposes, etc etc. congrats, you jumped the shark like a year ago.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2011

  16. Nerus

    Nerus Member Guru

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    Semantics my confused friend, your still arguing for the sake of arguing. You keep bringing up completely irrelevant distinction that I never raised.

    You again use the stawman technique. I like it how you keep "fighting" to prove something to yourself. I stated my opinion on the subject of patriotism, deal with it pumpkin.
     
  17. Palerider

    Palerider Ancient Guru

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    So the Poindexters can't even take pride in their own countries accomplishments and fallen heroes.They must cross their legs, and grab their pipes, and try to out Know it all each other.Like I said before- It's sad.Maybe if your grandfathers knew what ingrates you would become, they wouldn't have bothered fighting for you at all.

    Can you just close this thread, and let them bicker somewhere else?
     
  18. Nato.dbnz

    Nato.dbnz Ancient Guru

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    For many, military accomplishments aren't really accomplishments at all. To me war is a necessary evil at best and certainly not something I'd be up tooting my trumpet about. Not to mention that many of the 'fallen heroes' out there are just scared kids without many options in life. It's sad more than anything.
     
  19. Dahzeal33

    Dahzeal33 Ancient Guru

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    Maaaan, why'd someone have to bring pride as a deadly sin up?

    You know what's also a deadly sin? Sloth! And the most synonymous word with sloth, according to wiki is Apathy.

    Yeah, I think being patriotic is in the opposite spectrum of that.
     
  20. Tom F

    Tom F Ancient Guru

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    I completely agree. While these peoploe have made -huge- sacrifices, it's not something the rest of us can be proud of.

    Not sure I feel patriotic. I feel proud to come from a society where we have free healthcare, an amazing (if currently heavily underfunded) welfare state, a just police force...but that's something everyone should have access to. Not just me because my parents happen to have been born in a certain geographical location.

    We also have a lot of innovation and research in science and technology here which I'm proud of - but I'm proud to be involved with that sort of thing because it's on the cutting edge of what we as humans can do, rather than as a country.

    Similarly with achievements in other countries - to me it's what humans can achieve, rather than a country. It's a pretty arbitrary thing - the colour of your passport doesn't matter IMO.
     

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