Overclocking problems under Vista x64

Discussion in 'RivaTuner Advanced Discussion forum' started by Garegaupa, Oct 6, 2007.

  1. Garegaupa

    Garegaupa Member

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    Hello!

    I just recently installed RivaTuner 2.05 (with the signed driver package) to try to overclock my GeForce 8800GTS under Vista Ultimate x64. My problem is that while everything seems to work normally, overclocking does not seem to take effect. I can adjust the sliders any way I want, but there is neither any difference in 3DMark score or in game performance. I'm having the same problem with nTune - I can adjust the frequencies at will, but nothing happens. I'm using driver version 163.69.

    Is there anyone else with similar experiences?

    My system: Corsair 620W PSU, Athlon 64 X2 4200+, 4 GiB of DDR-RAM and XFX GeForce 8800GTS 320 MiB.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2007
  2. Deliverator

    Deliverator Guest

    Show screenshots and tell what you do in more detail (perhaps every step you did).
     
  3. Garegaupa

    Garegaupa Member

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    OK, I'll attempt to explain what I did in more detail:

    - I installed RivaTuner 2.05 with the add-on that is supposed to let the program work in Vista x64 with driver signing on. (This still generated a message about unsigned drivers, but everyting appeared to work correctly afterwards, and I had full access to the overclocking part of the program, unlike when I tried installing a previous version which did not have this add-on.)

    - I started RivaTuner, having to confirm to Vista UAC that this was indeed a safe program to use.

    - On the first page, where it says "Driver settings", i got the message "ForceWare detected", clicked the "Customise" button at the right of the screen and then clicked "System settings".

    - On the "System tweaks" page, I checked the box that says "Enable driver-level hardware overclocking". When the box informing about the required clock frequency detection, I left the box about allowing 2D and 3D being separately overclocked checked and clicked on "Detect".

    - RivaTuner then reported the following stock clock frequencies: 513 MHz (core), 1188 MHz (shader) and 792 MHz (memory).

    - I then proceeded to moving the core slider (with the "Link clocks" box checked) and the memory slider to a certain level of overclock (for instance 600 MHz on the core and 900 MHz on the memory). Then I checked the "Apply overclocking at Windows startup" checkbox under "Startup settings" and clicked "Save". Finally, I pushed "Use" and "OK" at the bottom of the "System tweaks" window, and clicked "OK" again in the main RivaTuner window. (I adjusted the sliders under "performance 3D". The sliders under "low power 3D" seemed to be locked to stock values. The clocks under "standard 2D" seemed to be linked to what I did under "performance 3D".)

    - I then went into the NVIDIA Control Panel (i have nTune installed too) and verified that the clock frequencies had indeed changed there too.

    After this I proceeded testing with benchmarking software (3DMark '05 and '06) and games (Neverwinter Nights 2, World in Conflict (demo) and a DX10 demo of PT Boats: Knights of the Sea). Neither of these programs showed the slightest increase in score/performance no matter what clock speeds I set the card to.

    Using the built-in utility in RivaTuner, I could also confirm that the clock frequency stayed the same during this testing - at least they seemed to do so.

    This is what I did in as much detail as I can think of. Please let me know if you need more information, or any screenshots (I didn't include any screenshots with this post simply because I don't know what would be relevant to have screenshots of).
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2007
  4. Deliverator

    Deliverator Guest

    This encounter is random, if I were you I'd begin trying things I don't have the slightest idea about. :)
    This includes, but is not limited to, unchecking the 2D and 3D separate clocking thing, reboot to see if system changes are applied at startup (Everest can tell you 2D, low-power and high-power speeds that are set for your card, and if the high-power (performance) line is good, then you're not failing a software issue).

    If the program(s) do what they're supposed to, then you might as well complain to XFX about their card (last resort). But try to make it work first, anyway (alternatively, you can try a different program, like ATITool, and if you succeed, then you know you need to set something differently in RivaTuner).

    Since I don't know the exact way this thing throws its pie, you'd need to wait a few months until Unwinder replies, just in case you can't fix it.
     

  5. Garegaupa

    Garegaupa Member

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    Thanks a lot for your help so far, Deliverator! :) Especially the part about Everest being able to show the speed of the graphics card - I hadn't thought about that.

    I'll try some more and post here again if I find a solution. :)

    EDIT: Okay, now I've tried that. When I change the clocks in Rivatuner, the change shows up in Everest like you can see on the attached screenshot.

    [​IMG]

    But still there is no improvement in benchmarks or performance - very strange...
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2007
  6. Deliverator

    Deliverator Guest

    Why does Everest say the default GPU speed is 33,380 MHz? You wish!
    I'd send the card back for review, it looks faulty (I hope you get what I mean).

    If you don't want to do that, you can try making it work in another PC - if it works, the problem is somewhere else.

    Edit: I originally meant the following place to look in: Display -> GPU.
    If you scroll down there, you can see the 2D, low power 3D and performance 3D levels which the driver set for this card.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2007
  7. Garegaupa

    Garegaupa Member

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    Heh heh... Yes, I noticed that. :) I'm hoping that's just a bug in Everest, but it could also be the card as you say.

    I hope it won't have to come to that, as I just got this card as a replacement for an identical card I had earlier that was faulty... (By the way, the card is an XFX GeForce 8800GTS 320 MiB if that means anything).

    That is a possibility - I'd just have to find myself another PC to test it in... :)

    Yes, I realized that after posting the first time. I checked there too, and the Performance 3D levels were as expected.

    Anyway, thanks very much for your help so far! I'll keep trying for a while, but if nothing works then perhaps I'll have to return this card (again!) and get something else as a replacement... :bang:
     
  8. Garegaupa

    Garegaupa Member

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    Just a thought: Is it possible that the rest of my system (CPU, RAM) is limiting my performance so much that overclocking the graphics card won't help anything? (My systems specifications are in my profile.)

    I tried overclocking the GPU by up to 100 MHz and the video RAM by up to 200 MHz without any hint of improved performance or higher results in benchmarking programs. Could the rest of my PC possibly hold me back to such a degree?
     
  9. Deliverator

    Deliverator Guest

    Impossible. 3DMark06's SM3.0 tests are so video-intensive that there's no way your processor is limiting that.

    Just see the card in someone else's PC and see if you can overclock it with measureable results. If you can't, there may even be a problem with the card.
    But if you can, then you should revise drivers/software.
     
  10. -DS-Element

    -DS-Element New Member

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    Hi, i am having the EXACT same problem that you are having!!!

    i rushed through this thread and registered as fast as i could just to reply :p

    Ok, say yes i am having this problem aswell, i can change everything how i want it but when i look in NVIDIA Monitor it showing that nothing has changed at all, and testing with games and 3DMark06 i can tell that nothing has changed at all...

    This is really frustrating as i badly want to overclock.

    I have -

    Vista Ultimate x64
    8800GTX

    So we BOTH have Vista x64 and we BOTH have an 8 Series card... hmmm
     

  11. Unwinder

    Unwinder Moderator Staff Member

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    Also, both of you never heard about RTFM and about "throttling" term.
    There are thousands of 1-post users here claiming that thet are having "EXACT same" problem and having problem with understanding hw tuning basics in reality.
     
  12. -DS-Element

    -DS-Element New Member

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    I don't see how that helped.
     
  13. Marshall1

    Marshall1 New Member

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    Guys, RTFM. Set up a launcher profile for your OC & STD clock settings (your OC profile should have the same speeds over the 2D, LP 3D, & P3D spectrum (same with your standard profile) add Hardware acceleration to your monitor and enable your OC profile when HW acceleration goes to 1 (IE activate the OC at a threshold of .5).

    There are other ways but this was the simplest & it works every time.
     
  14. HeatSurge

    HeatSurge Active Member

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    Umm... sorry if I'm not getting something and I'm sounding really dumb, but isn't what they're doing unrelated to setting profiles to launch at startup?

    I mean - they're simply adjusting the performance 3D clocks (which should be the ones used when playing games), and then hitting "OK" and running games afterwards - in the same session (without restarting). I assume they're adjusting the "global driver settings" for the perf 3D clocks as I have been all along.

    Shouldn't changing the performance 3D clocks change performance in the current session (without restarting)?? Isn't that how rivatuner works?? :confused:

    Edit: Also, about throttling: Unwinder, are you saying that the cards are performing at their "edge" in stock configuration, so any increase in clock speeds is negated by thermal throttling?! I've seen a lot of people overclock 8800 GTSs and GTXs and they do get benefits from it... I guess I just don't understand what you mean by "throttling" but it's ok - you don't have to explain as I know you're really busy bringing us updates to rivatuner - for which I thank you sincerely.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2007
  15. Garegaupa

    Garegaupa Member

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    Yes, that's exactly what I thought. I tried Marshall1's solution yesterday, but that made no difference.

    I'm also wondering about this. I have always taken throttling to be what happens to a CPU or GPU when the temperature gets too high.
     

  16. Garegaupa

    Garegaupa Member

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    Here's an update: I just tried underclocking my card, and that worked. However, any overclock from 20 MHz and up (or any overclock at all, for that matter) simply has no effect...

    I am aware that the 163.69 driver, which I am using, has a cap for the GPU core frequency which should be at 594 MHz. But even values far below this gives no measurable increase in either bencmarks or games on my computer. Is the throttling set to take effect for even the slightest overclock in these drivers? I've found nothing in my searches to indicate anything like that.

    EDIT: I suppose I should also mention that I've tried overcloking with two or three earlier driver versions, before this limitation was introduced. The results were the same then: No measurable improvement in performance.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2007
  17. Annex

    Annex Member

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    GPU:
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    At the risk of being called a newbie and told to RTFM, I will tell you what I did to finally get things working right. Under XP I had zero problems with latest drivers and RT 2.05. However when I rolled up Vista again this weekend and gave things a whirl again I ran into these OC'ing problems. So here is a bunch of observations and solutions ive ran into:

    1) At times in RT in the hardware monitoring section, my cards (8800 GTS) sensor is either going whack or cant be read right, as both core and memory show 0. This is remedied by restarting the system and then it magically fixes itself. I havent changed any of the plugins (use ADT7473.dll and NVThermalDiode.dll). You may want to check this section first as I could not OC anything at all while this weirdness was going on. Id OC and click apply and nothing would happen. Restarting until the sensor was read right would allow me to OC.

    2) With the addition of the Shader Clock OC and the "challenges" that accompany it as outlined in the shader oc'ing tutorial and the effects it has on general OC'ing, I had two choices, either a) plow through all that to the point where id basically have a degree in insanity or b) find a simpler solution. Which lead me back to ATITool which I originally tried. In ATITool I could not OC at all regardless of what I did UNTIL I enabled OC'ing in RT and loaded up an OC profile at startup. Then OC'ing in ATITool would magically work, INCLUDING 3d game detection and the ability of that to simply load an OC profile when a 3d product is detected and then switch back to a low power 2d profile when that 3d product is closed. I love the power benefits of this but have had problems in certain games when I use RT to do the same (like in UT3 entering the big mech thingie would all of a sudden result in 1 fps, totally reproduceable problem).

    So right now I run both programs. I use RT to control my fans and to enable OC'ing, and I use ATITool to do 3D detection and switch between 2D and 3D profiles. It works and works extremely well for me. Ofcourse its far from the ideal solution due to the necessity of running two apps, but it gives me exactly the results I want with no apparent sideeffects. Come RT 2.06 and some newer drivers from nvidia and ill give the RT only setup another shot and see if I can get it to work right.
     
  18. Unwinder

    Unwinder Moderator Staff Member

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    Topic starter can thank others "I cannot get overclocking working" spammers fo closing the thread.
    When will this flow of o/c newbies end at last?

    Once again, with bold font:

    New versions of RivaTuner will not fix overclocking "problems" in RT because there are none of them. Your understanding is the thing to be fixed.

    The next complaint from the user misunderstanding 2D/3D clocking, shader clock control, clock frequency generation granularity, throttling or blindly programming the thresholds will be simply removed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2007
  19. Unwinder

    Unwinder Moderator Staff Member

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    Thread is open per creator's request. -DS-Element, Annex and the rest "My overclocking doesn't work, give me the fix" guys are warned, such messages (especially cloned in multiple threads) wiil be simply silently cleaned from the threads including this one.
     
  20. Annex

    Annex Member

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    Have you read my post even? What exactly am I being warned about? I got my OC working perfectly fine at the moment. I replied to Garegaupa to offer him insight on the problems I ran into and the observations and solutions I achieved. He is most welcome to ignore all that I have written. If there is nothing wrong with RT then that is SUPER, however im sure there are issues with the drivers themselves, something which is most believable especially after posts like yours at http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=241437
     

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