Official requirements for new 8K standard published

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Sep 24, 2019.

  1. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    12,973
    Likes Received:
    1,430
    GPU:
    Aorus 3090 Xtreme
    I dont disagree with the idea, its just not practical on a TV, especially one without mass sales.
    The idea is already under development for VR headsets where it could be very useful.

    Another worthwhile point, is 8K gaming compatible with our bodies anyway? (ie to make full use of the extra resolution)
    You need a damn huge screen or to sit very close, otherwise those extra pixels are wasted.
    Either way you are going to be moving your head a lot.

    You can use a 65" 8K screen but why bother?
    Its not like using a 32" 4K monitor because you will be sitting twice the distance away from a 65" screen at least, removing the benefit higher resolution brings.

    Take a look at the optimal distances at Rtings
    https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-size/size-to-distance-relationship
    A 70" 4K screen optimal distance to see all the pixels is 1.35m.
    Halve that again for 8K.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  2. wavetrex

    wavetrex Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,442
    Likes Received:
    1,087
    GPU:
    Zotac GTX1080 AMP!
    That "minimum distance to see the pixels" is not quite true...
    Yes, one individual pixel might be too small to discern from the next individual pixel... put put an aliased staircase pattern on the screen:
    ###
    .....###
    ...........###
    ................###
    ... and it will be noticeable as being aliased and unnatural even from far away.

    2nd, any high-frequency color changes generate Moire patterns on any pixel-based display... the only mitigation for that is higher resolution.

    ---
    Also, detail in gaming is quite a lot higher than detail in movies and TV shows.
    I for example can't see the difference between playing a 720p or 1080p movie on my 1080p TV, at any distance, but I clearly see the difference between 720p and 1080p gaming on the same TV (720p looking soft while 1080p does not). And that's at a quite large distance all the way from the couch on the other side of the room.

    Yes 8K might be overkill for anything, but it does bring displays very close to reality (which doesn't have any "pixels").
    The main purpose for ultra high resolution will be to mask any form of aliasing.
     
  3. craycray

    craycray Member Guru

    Messages:
    168
    Likes Received:
    43
    GPU:
    3080 Gaming X Trio
    Thank you Mufflore! My current TV is 8 years old now. So, I am thinking about 77inch C9 during holidays this year, (since you are quite knowledgeable, I would ask you this) any gotchas or possible pitfalls I should consider?
     
  4. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    12,973
    Likes Received:
    1,430
    GPU:
    Aorus 3090 Xtreme
    That depends on your intended use(s) and what you expect/want.
     

  5. craycray

    craycray Member Guru

    Messages:
    168
    Likes Received:
    43
    GPU:
    3080 Gaming X Trio
    Mixed bag use case, TV, Movies and Games. My only concern being that it is a south facing family room. So, I am worried about reflections, brightness, etc.
     
  6. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    12,973
    Likes Received:
    1,430
    GPU:
    Aorus 3090 Xtreme
    Brightness could be a problem with OLED.
    The C9 can handle reflections very well but might not be bright enough to overcome glare if light is coming toward it from a few windows.
    I would be concerned it wont be bright enough for daytime viewing.
    If you need to keep the brightness high all the time and watch channels a lot that have a logo or game a lot, you may suffer burn in.
    The positive side is you arent using it for Windows.

    Consider the Samsung Q90R 2019 TV and last years Q9FN.
    These dont suffer burn in and are much brighter than OLED.
    If you need a wide viewing angle (bigger than 20 degrees from the centre) because people sit outside of the centre 3 positions, consider the 2019 Q90 TV, it has a filter that widens the viewing angle but reduces the contrast ratio substantially to 11,000:1

    If you dont need a wide viewing angle, the cheaper and brighter 2018 models are a very good purchase. Look at the high end Q9FN, prices are great now if you can find one. I use one, Its fantastic.
    The anti glare/reflection coating is very good and HDR brightness is around double that of the C9 OLED.
    Its contrast ratio is 19,000:1.


    All of the above TVs have low lag.
    The LG C9 is HDMI 2.1 which allows 4K 120Hz if you get an HDMI 2.1 gfx card for your PC (not released yet).
    OLEDs have infinite contrast ratio which is why they are so good for SDR viewing but HDR needs a dark room due to the low brightness.
    OLEDs have no problem with viewing angle.
    Colour volume on the Samsungs is better, the Q9FN is the best. (ie stronger colour throughout the brightness range)

    Choices.
     
  7. craycray

    craycray Member Guru

    Messages:
    168
    Likes Received:
    43
    GPU:
    3080 Gaming X Trio

    Thank you Mufflore, I agree with you 100% and I was quite ready to buy Q90R or even Q900R. But my big problem with them is lack of a full scale HDMI 2.1 ports. I don't that I should spend 6k in 2019 on a TV without HDMI 2.1 ports (EDIT: mostly because I don't think it is wise to buy such expensive TVs every couple of years).

    Samsung really missed the ball on that one. Either I wait for next spring, or buy C9 this year.
     
  8. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    12,973
    Likes Received:
    1,430
    GPU:
    Aorus 3090 Xtreme
    Hold out for 2020 TVs.
    Only the Q900R has HDMI 2.1 but not full bandwidth and the price is silly as you said.
    Next year will bring HDMI 2.1 out of the woods, there will be much more choice with more advanced features.
     
  9. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    12,973
    Likes Received:
    1,430
    GPU:
    Aorus 3090 Xtreme
    An interesting development.
    The Q90R can do 4K120Hz using ycbcr 4:2:0 over HDMI 2.0.
    There is an inevitable loss of colour quality but the TVs colour quality is very good so it compensates somewhat.


    I just tried it on my Q9FN but it doesnt expose 4:2:0, only 4:4:4 and 4:2:2.
    You can get 4:2:0 but only if you tell the TV it isnt connected to an HDMI 2.0 device, which defeats the purpose.

    Anyway, food for thought.
     
  10. craycray

    craycray Member Guru

    Messages:
    168
    Likes Received:
    43
    GPU:
    3080 Gaming X Trio
    Thanks Mufflore. I just saw the development on MiniLEDs is coming pretty strong. So, I am thinking about holding out till next year. Hopefully Big Navi, Ampere and MiniLED happens at the same time :).
     

  11. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    12,973
    Likes Received:
    1,430
    GPU:
    Aorus 3090 Xtreme
    Be sure that wasnt Mini OLED, I nearly fell for it.
     

Share This Page