Oculus to release Touch-controllers months after Rift release

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jan 1, 2016.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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  2. SirDremor

    SirDremor Master Guru

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    Boring.
    I can't understand all the fuss about VR. We've already seen VR attempts in 90s, they failed.
    Nothing has vastly changed since then.
    The price, lack of content (ok, there will be racing simulators, flying simulators, swimming simulators... ok, even if there will be a simulator for every first person action - it is still nothing), hardware requirements, "stuck with only 1 kind of display forever" - why are everyone so ecstatic about VR?
    3D was also shoved down our throats like a new cure for cancer... and what became of it?
    True, VR will take some niche market, but it has no real value entertainment wise (I am not talking on medical or other real life implementations).

    In my view - the future is with Augmented Reality.
     
  3. Inquisitor

    Inquisitor Member Guru

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    Have you used the Oculus Rift or any other VR device for that matter?

    The first generation of VR back in those days the graphics were just crude shapes and blocks floating around that didn't offer any kind of a realistic envrionment but now with mordern games it drastically changes how hou precieve your envrioment and makes it much more realistic. Put some headphones on and you truly do get ermersed and feel "inside" the game. It's hard to descrive just how good it is, so different to how it was way back then in the 90's.

    Also there are some big players pushing VR at the moment. I'm not going to say VR will succeed but you can't compare it to 3D. For me 3D is/was a nice to have feature (assuming it was implement correctly which most of the time it wasn't!), once you've experienced VR there's no going back and this is just the begining.

    Also, augmented reality looks amazing too and I can't wait to see how that develops but where AR enhances your current envrionment with VR, it can completely change it.
     
  4. Nijohc

    Nijohc Master Guru

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    I for one am really looking forward to this. PC gaming for me has become incredibly stale of late as such I mainly play games from the 90's and early 00's through emulation - much more fun.

    If they can do it right and sort of make it feel like you're actually there (no motion lag etc.) I think it will be great. Lot's of possibilities. I just hope it will work for people who wear glasses like me, my up close seeing is perfect but everything gets blurry long distance so maybe I can get away without needing my glasses for it? :D
     

  5. sammarbella

    sammarbella Ancient Guru

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    I think is a good decision to delay VR to second half of 2016.

    IMHO VR have 3 main problems right now:

    - GPU power needs

    - Specific VR input interfaces

    - An industry standard to set minimum features like resolutions per eye and stable (locked) fps and hz.

    The first two problems can't be solved without enough GPU power level (980ti?) and new user interfaces available.

    The third one i guess it will not be set until some part loose the first batlle of this market war.
     
  6. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    Are you insane?
     
  7. benq

    benq Active Member

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    I tried the Oculus Rift months ago and it was super awesome. :infinity:

    Maybe you are not compatible with 3D and that's why you just hate Oculus or similar products :puke2:
     
  8. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Download Tridef 3D Ignition and see if you have enough horsepower for dual view stereoscopic rendering of your games.
    I had no problems back then with HD7970 and 1080p. Now I have no problems with 2x 1080p as I have no problem with 4k.

    Input interfaces? Not really, VR is not that much different than having stereoscopic game on monitor, you can easily use same input devices which were in mind of creator of given game.

    Only industry standard which has not been delivered (in my point of view) is AdaptiveSync, all remaining are already surpassing what is needed for enjoyable VR experience.
     
  9. sammarbella

    sammarbella Ancient Guru

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    I guess we talk about different numbers.

    My active 3D TV can handle up to 60 FPS per eye at 1080p so i can't test for 90 FPS LOCKED per eye.

    I seriously doubt a HD7970 can handle 2x90 FPS LOCKED at 1080p with at least some quality (some AA, some shadow distance,....).

    That's exactly the same amount of pixels as 45 FPS at 4K or 180 FPS at 1080p single screen images.

    LOCKED frames per second without drops.

    I have the same doubts about my 290X CFX.

    Playing a stereoscopic game in a 3D monitor (or 3D TV) you can still SEE your keyboard, with a headset on you lost all visual references of the real world around you.

    Ufff i forgot this one.

    Add it to the needed standard for VR.

    The simple solution to start this tech is avoid adaptative sync for VR until its more mature.

    If they have problems to implement adaptative sync for a single image imagine the problems to apply it to two simultaneous and slightly different images who must have EXACTLY the same FPS on both.

    Imagine the VR headset on your head and playing as game with an image at say, 64 FPS and the other at 75 FPS and the adaptative sync moving FPS up and down like a drunk money at each slight move.

    :3eyes:


    P.S.: Obviously the GPU power needed to render the second image of the pair is less than rendering a completely different image from "scratch".

    The second image is simply the first one with a different angle of vision.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2016
  10. StewieTech

    StewieTech Chuck Norris

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    VR is the future and the natural evolution. It has been lurking out of the water sometimes trying to breath for quite some time and now seems a good time to start colonizing the earth. We reached a point where graphics have evolved so much they don´t have the impact on the gaming experince it used to have: VR on the other hand has quite the potential. It´s a revolution for me.
     

  11. theoneofgod

    theoneofgod Ancient Guru

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    Won't it be a lot like 3D movies, being certain movies are improved by the 3D experience.
     
  12. StewieTech

    StewieTech Chuck Norris

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    Not really, VR in gaming is a whole new way of experince and being emerged in the game. It just has to evolve and grow in use. It´s a matter of time really.
     
  13. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    bold: You can test just fine, everyone can take downsampled game from 1440p to 1080p and run it in side by side stereoscopic 3D, that's just below target in resolution and to see if your fps is sufficient, you are not forced to use vsync for test. (Why would you limit yourself for test purposes if test is meant to show if your HW is capable to deliver or not?)
    But reality is that you doubt your HW because You did not even try.

    Underlined: You are not retarded, I have never seen person getting confused by entering VR, unless they are retarded. You can walk blindly in your home at night because you exactly know where stuff is. And finding little bump on "F" & "J" keys or mouse on place where you left it second ago...
    But I guess, those people capable to write on keyboards without watching it are just miraculous.

    To the rest, you completely misunderstood or did not even tried to understand rendering techniques for stereoscopic used in VR. Communication is not "frame sequential L/R", it is "Full L+R".
    As you presume 2x 1080p resolution for VR, one frame is 2x 1920 * 1080 (3840 * 1080). It is rendered as one image way games render one image, it just takes longer. AMD's VR CF method is simply splitting it in two (like tile based rendering). And each GPU renders exactly one half which does not break any special buffer stuff/post-processing.
    And image is recomposed into that full 3840 * 1080 original before it is sent to headset. Your idea of variable fps per eye imposes VR headset to present itself to PC as 2x 1920 * 1080 monitors, that would force additional software handling and therefore is not viable option.
    Therefore Adaptive Sync would work as well as it works on regular monitor, improving on smoothness of presented imagery in case of fps drop.

    I can say quite a few things from experience. VR is not about extreme details, it is about depth perception and feel of environment.
    One of first games I did play in stereoscopic on modern monitor was HL2, that's now 11 years old game. If you fire this game on VR (since valve has support even for TF2) you'll be amazed by how much this game looks better than on monitor with exactly same resolution. Because it is depth perception itself which adds details to game.

    Those simple games/presentations on Samsung Galaxy S6 which are rendered by internal chip are enough to have good experience, all this small portable VR delivers is enough and is nowhere in comparison to what PC can deliver since we already have all content we need and motion tracking for PC is complete while GearVR has only angular tracking.
     
  14. sammarbella

    sammarbella Ancient Guru

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    No bro, i have no problem at all testing it and even to prove myself wrong if it's the case.

    :)

    My only problem in this case is my time constraints.

    Starting tomorrow i'll have 3 days off from work and i'll fully test it.

    I've just installed Tridef 3D trial and connected my rig directly to the TV to avoid any AV receiver problems.

    Not miraculous at all but i must admit with shame that i have computers since almost 30 years and i still need to look at keyboard to type!

    :bang:

    You are right i mixed Full HD 3D (SBS) which is frame sequential in active 3D TVs with Full HD L+R in VR.

    I don't remember exactly what was the hz supported for SBS in my LG TV (last time i play using TriDef was 2 years ago) but i guess it was 60 (30+30 sequential frames) since my GPUs are connected via HDMI 1.4b.

    I only remember that the reason to stop playing games in 3D was the same i drop trying to see 3D movies: i never found optimal settings for crosstalk and deep 3D settings.

    Worked for one movie and was impossible for another.

    IDK, maybe this problem is solved in active 3D monitors.

    DK2?
     
  15. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Since it is LG, they use FPR (line interleaved & passive 3D). Their 3 years and younger models have practically no crosstalk at all unless it is small TV and you sit too close to it.
    For modes it can eat SBS (L+R) or TOP+Bottom (L+R) and L/R can be swapped as needed in TV menu.
    Therefore it accepts 60Hz signal. If SBS is used, you are wasting half of vertical resolution as L/R are odd/even lines. And half horizontal resolution as image has to be stretched 2:1 to cover full image. Therefore Top+Bottom image rendering is better choice. Or if you can use directly Line interleaved, but in some cases there are HDMI artifacts.
     

  16. sammarbella

    sammarbella Ancient Guru

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    Hummm not this model.

    LG 60PB690V

    One of the latest plasma produced, not the best one but it was a great deal 800 euros for an active 3D Plasma:

    S/S, T/B, C/B and F/S (Frame Sequential 3D Format).

    http://www.lg.com/uk/tvs/lg-60PB690V
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2016
  17. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Yes, plasmas are well suited for active 3D, their response time should prevent any ghosting in combination with good active glasses.
    One thing is important there, to disable any kind of internal image processing, but same applies to passive 3D.

    That yours look very nice.

    There are many tricks with LG TVs, one should use for PC one particular port (usually 1st or named as DVI even if it is HDMI), then select it in properties as either gaming console or PC and then rename it to "PC"/leave name empty.

    I have spent some time looking for tricks for my LG TV back when I had use for it. And it is sad that one has to use tricks, there should be simply option to remove all internal processing and reduce latency to nothing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2016
  18. SirDremor

    SirDremor Master Guru

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    Ok, everyone, who is offended by my non-believer in VR words, please share your thoughts in my new post - right here.

    I know, I've written quite a lot, but please take your time.
    Also I wish to say, that I posted that thread not with the purpose of offending anyone else, but to get to the bottom of VR hype.
     
  19. alxtorrentazos

    alxtorrentazos Master Guru

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    Forget about gaming for now........but think about watching a movie with a 200" screen in front of you :D
     

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