NVIDIA: V-Sync OFF Not Recommended as a Global Setting Starting

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Feb 12, 2021.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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  2. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    It never has been, there are applications that rely on being able to specify their tearing and swapmode methods that otherwise break.

    Application default has always been the recommended setting, and then control the vsync off state either from the application side or a driver profile.

    Nvidia need to remove the off state from the global setting and only expose it under profiles
     
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  3. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    O always prefer 'adaptive' for global.
     
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  4. Camaxide

    Camaxide Active Member

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    I highly disagree, everyone knows vsync introduced input lag, and many does not want that, and do not care about tearing. On a high refresh monitor the tearing is very subtle, and the benefit of improved input lag is major. So the best option is to default as always, and then let the user decide what is best for their own use.. because each user likely knows best what they want and need, and not someone else..
     

  5. Dragam1337

    Dragam1337 Ancient Guru

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    That is the most retarded thing i've heard in a long time... why the **** should they remove the option... it's entirely up to people themselfs if they want to make use of the option or not, and some do.
     
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  6. asturur

    asturur Maha Guru

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    Input lag has always been the wrong definition imho.
    What vsync introduces is visual lag / reaction lag.
    You kick a button at time X, the frame goes in the rendering time and is in the back buffer at X + N, then goes in the front buffer at X + N + N.
    The game engine could shoot that input to the network before the frames are done.

    So you see it happening later, but the input is not suffering from lag. Is a visual lag issue imho.

    People think that their inputs are not considered because all the computer does nothing waiting for the next vsync, and that seems silly to me as a software developer. If it is true in games, is games fault.
     
  7. monkaS

    monkaS New Member

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    If I use let the application decide for vsync my mouse doesn't feel snappy in games even if I make a profile to turn it off and I don't use vsync in game settings, this is probably due to wdm asks for vsync and adds input lag when you gaming even if vsync is off in game settings
     
  8. jbscotchman

    jbscotchman Ancient Guru

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    People turn v-sync off?
     
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  9. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Because users are stupid and think they know more than they actually do.

    Refer to the post above yours as an example of knowing just enough to cause problems but not enough to know why it does.

    No, the user does not know best.

    Also: See "From global" and "do it from game profiles"


    Another example of not knowing how stuff works so grasps at straws for an explanation.

    Full screen optimisations means DWM isn't in the mix at all (until a compositor overlay is presented such as the volume bar / Xbox gamebar)
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2021
  10. ObscureangelPT

    ObscureangelPT Master Guru

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    I tend to play with Vsync on anyway.
    That is .. when I reach the target framerate only and in singleplayer titles.

    As for competitive gaming, vsync off.
    Curiously enough and not sure if placebo or not,
    when playing with vsync ON (which brutally adds tons of input lag), enabling nvidia reflex does improve a lot even with vsync on.
    Still for competitive games, vsync for me is off.

    But any singleplayer game with >60FPS is on :D
     

  11. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    Using Global profile is mostly a dumb idea. Mostly...

    Yes. But
    a) it manifests itself as a visual lag
    because
    b) your input command matters only insofar as it's displayed on screen
     
  12. asturur

    asturur Maha Guru

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    You understand that 'brutally adds a ton of input lag ' seems an exageration? at worst can add you a full frame of delay, 16ms. Anything else on top of that is probably game fault.

    How much is this ton if input lag, can you quantify?
     
  13. TheDeeGee

    TheDeeGee Ancient Guru

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    Nothing changes for me then, cuz i only ever set the Performance Mode in Global tab to Adaptive, the rest is default.

    If a game needs V-Sync i make a profile for it.
     
  14. ObscureangelPT

    ObscureangelPT Master Guru

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    @asturur In a FPS game like Warzone and especially CS:GO, enabling VSYNC in a 60HZ screen is really noticable in your response time.

    What I was saying is Nvidia reflex (curiosly enough) gets a lot of that response time back with vsync on (and also with Vsync off, duh), but still for this type of games, it's still prefferable for me to play with vsync OFF.
    Possibly if I had 1440HZ screen I would have a different opinion, but I'm still a 60HZ Peasent :D
     
  15. asturur

    asturur Maha Guru

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    Well this in single player disconnected games. Anyone talks about online competitive games, and in that case the input matters when it gets acknowleged by the server, and in that case vsync should be out of the equation. The issue is that you could be playing 1 extra frame behind reality. And that extra frame is long 16ms or maybe 32 if your frame rate goes down, but that seems like still small
    compared to network lag. I know everything adds up, but i feel the situation is a bit exagerated.
     

  16. asturur

    asturur Maha Guru

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    nvidia reflex i think default to vsync fast, that is a fake vsync, unlimited on the cpu / gpu side, then synced in another way on the screen. So you render all the frames as vsync off without being limited to the triple buffer, double back buffer. So you are effectively using vsync off with no tearing, that for most people is a solution.
     
  17. loracle

    loracle Master Guru

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    I can't play without v-sync on because of tearing, and i noticed that when v-sync is off beside of tearing the gpu is heavily stressed :):D
     
  18. NiColaoS

    NiColaoS Master Guru

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    Me personally as long as I remember always on. I hate everything without VSync. My monitor is only 75Hz and I don't know whether the guy that said on 165Hz monitors the tearing almost goes away. Whether is true or not, I have no idea. Also I like that my card is capable at almost all of my games pulling the 75Hz required with FPS Limiter at 73Hz, too. Now to do that at 165Hz more than doubles the horsepower needed. You need the monitor and the GPU and even CPU in order to achieve that. Otherwise, there's no point.

    P.S. By the way, what the heck happened to 120Hz monitors? Why did we jump to 144 and 165 arbitrarily ( seemingly )? That would be my next monitor with a new GPU, say 3060 but 1660 Super at 210€ was the last extremely good purchase I made. Now everything is heavily overpriced. When you're over 30 years old, you start playing a lot less and lowering your expectations. I don't even know why I got 9700K CPU. It never works more than 50% in games ( at 73Hz ).
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2021
  19. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    Yes, acknowledgment by server is what matters and not just what is drawn on screen. So only if something is late on screen, it can still be registered earlier by the server.
    But you are sending your input command toward server only as your reaction to what you're seeing on screen. And if on-screen is late due to v-sync, the end result will be late, regardless of the server registering in a timely manner.
     
  20. Solfaur

    Solfaur Ancient Guru

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    I made it a habit to turn it on as soon as I update drivers. Most games are fine with it off and g-sync only, but I noticed more and more that require both v-sync and g-sync on for butter smooth non-tearing experience. I care less about input lag than I do about screen tearing.
     
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