NVIDIA Unreal Engine 4 Plugin Brings DLSS To More Games

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Mar 18, 2021.

  1. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    And, that's why I gave you "TL;DR". Yet, you can notice one thing in our postings. I am not one who is unstable and out of control.
    It would do you great good, if you read each of your posts before posting it and removed all ad hominems.
     
  2. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    Its easy to get an unsatisfactory result in cp2077 with DLSS if you dont know what you're doing. I was one of those unsatisfied with it at first, but its a very tweakable feature thats immeasurably useful and satisfying once you get it right.
     
  3. GREGIX

    GREGIX Master Guru

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    How? I mean, really, how do u tweak it?
    I know options below DLSS section in graphicic settings menu are tweak able, for some fidelity FX? Don't remember now.
    But DLSS has only slider from auto to performance only. At least in cp2077
     
  4. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    AF x16
    Image sharpening = 0.80
    ignore fim grain = 0.50
    LOD Bias = -2.0

    4k Native: https://cubeupload.com/im/taco/Native.jpg
    DLSS quality: https://cubeupload.com/im/taco/DLSS.jpg

    Image quality is maintained in motion too.
     

  5. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Game still looks really washed out with or without DLSS.
    I did clip part of your image as example:
    upload_2021-3-22_0-28-8.png
    upload_2021-3-22_0-29-26.png
    Most of those textures are very low quality. And that's surprising as you are using LOD -2 which should result in over-shaprenned textures.

    From my point of view, this game has barely sufficient texture quality for 1080p. CDPR should release proper fix.
     
  6. magic09

    magic09 Member

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    Guys DLSS has its own sharpener built in and can be adjusted outside of Nvidia control panel sharpener. I have mine at .5 for cyberpunk and works great except prduces ghosting on UI elements but in game it looks superior to adding CP PP. Why CDPR didnt use DLSS sharpening idk? but I will tell you DLSS is a gamechanger I hope it holds up in VR as System Shock VR remake looks to be the first big test of it and sorely needed as HMD tech has blown past GPU tech.
     
  7. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    Depending on the area, that is not universal. This is an industrial area with smokestacks and haze in the background. Not sure why they would invest in detailed textures for those parts.
     
  8. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    I do remember stupid games which used unique textures per object with higher resolutions. (One of wolfensteins for example.)
    And those metalic or other blocks which are repetitive does not need very high resolution. They simply repeat texture with sufficient resolution.
    Same problem can be seen on many places in this game. And I see no reason to be apologetic about it. CDPR made product which is in quality way under what we are used to from them.
     
  9. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    I dont believe any game exists that uses gratuitous amounts of hi-res textures in areas where they may not be noticeable in game, it would kill perf too much. Would be a dumb thing to do. Hi res textures are mostly used in areas that make the most difference in visual quality in game, namely the foreground and midground areas. I say in game as opposed to zooming in on screenshots for details that can never be seen in game.

    Cyberpunk is the best looking game I have seen period. Its 4k textures are great where they are needed (again, the foreground and midground areas). Re the haze, what I believe they are trying to do is to mimic real life conditions in industrial areas, esp hazy South Cal cities like LA.

    LA in RL (on a bad day). Yes, RL can look worse than a game:
    [​IMG]

    Also, as stated I doubt any other game can do better than CB in visuals. Go to google images and dl Valhalla 4k screenshots (or any other game) and zoom in to mid or background areas for the details. You will face same problem.

    Anyway, what we have been discussing is not DLSS related. The main point is that DLSS can be a fantastic feature when tweaked right by the user. :)
     
  10. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Well, next time you can say that bad side quests are OK, because they are just side quests and therefore not important.
    Wait, CP2077 is kind of side quest broken, isn't it? So that's reason why side areas are not important?

    And "RL can look worse than a game" is not really an argument. 1st even that image looks better than ones you posted. (And that's while it has been taken either by poor camera or shaky hand. See bottom left blur on static objects.)
    2nd, what about putting smoke screen in front of camera to make everything look worse than any game? See? Anything can be made to look worse than something else. So it is not objective argument.

    As for DLSS, it surely helps at places. And IQ at given performance is not bad outside of problematic areas/effects.
    (Which you should have noticed right in the middle of cutouts I posted. And which you can verify as you have originals. Those 4 rectangular vents/elevator shaft floors are very different.)

    But my point is, that it is not hard for DLSS to do relatively good job when game does not look exactly great on native.
    I think that in case of CP2077, you can take three 27'' screens. One native 1080p, other 1440p, and last 4K. Then sit 80~90cm away from them and compare how much higher resolutions improve different aspects of rendered images.
    And when higher resolution mainly improves sharpness of edges and not actual textures on objects it is quite waste of computational power. Because edges of objects cover just few percent of screen.

    In case of CP2077, those barb-wires should look fantastic on 4k, each loop covers quite a lot of pixels. Yet, they look very bad. No surprise that DLSS can't do anything to improve them. One can have better rendering even on 1080p.

    What I think is that DLSS or AMD's upcoming upscaling should be compared to best rendering to date, not to technological failures.
    Almost anything can succeed when it competes against failures.
    - - - -

    I am not fan of GTA5, but in certain ways, this is kind of benchmark for visual fidelity:
    upload_2021-3-22_11-13-33.png
    When you look at small 10-floor office building on left. You can notice that windows are 3 pixels wide. And that there are tons of fine details everywhere in that image.
    It is not easy to recover such information from lower resolutions. That kind of visual details should be benchmark. Not games which can't render 50-pixels tall barb wire properly.
    In contrast to that, you have people walking around lake in screenshot above. They are 12-pixels tall and you can recognize their motion, direction, ...
     

  11. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    Personally I think CB could do with a reshade mod. Rather than nitpicking screenshots, see it in motion. Sorry, GTA5 dosnt hold a candle to it.

     
  12. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    I am not talking color grading or other balancing effects. I am saying that CB2077 does not provide you with visual information.
    In GTA, game engine does not butcher fine details. And that's why you can see very precise windows which are 2~3 pixels wide.
    But CP2077, even with enhancements you posted have fine details downright mediocre. And even large objects which cover big portion of screen are trashy.
    https://pasteboard.co/JTNvtbw.png
    This is image from very video you posted. That "12" building would not look any worse on 480p. There is so little details, that 4K is wasted on it. What's the point in rendering 20 times same blob that provides no additional information? No point at all.

    And I mean it. I pasted this image to mspaint. Opened another one, then downscaled it to 480p and upscaled again. And when compared, that building looked almost same.

    Do you really think that mspaint has magical upscaling from 480p that can match high quality rendering at high resolutions? I do not think so. Mspaint has like worst resize available.

    And that building was not only part of image which looked so similar, that I have even worse opinion about CP2077 now.
     
  13. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    I dont know man, but you seem go off on your own tangents fishing for problems to issues that are of no consequence to me. Its like you are attempting to gaslight ppl in your arguments. You think GTA5 is a better looking game than CB77, OK, in your world I guess it must be :rolleyes:.
     
  14. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    So, you are telling me and everyone that building "12" has acceptable image quality?
    https://pasteboard.co/JTNvtbw.png
    I am telling you that rendering such thing on lower resolution or 4K does nothing outside enhancing edges. When someone renders 10~20 times more pixels due to higher resolution, computational power should be worth it.
    And that particular building could have been rendered at 480p and DLSSed to 4K with same results as source you provided has.

    (You can't shoot the messenger, just because you do not like message.)
     
  15. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    Your methodology of taking screenshots off YT videos is funny to say the least. Even the foreground areas are blurry, lol.

    Thats not to say there may be the odd building here or there that may not have enough detail, but it is not consistent in game. Other buildings have great detail. The point is, that the details are in the areas where it counts most, where they are seen by gamers (not by forum detectives nit-picking for anomalies).

    Buildings in background where LA type haze or smog exists, would be pointless for devs to invest in detail (as the part where you zoomed in on an earlier ss). Again I am sure you can go around nit-picking isolated examples to trash the games IQ as a whole, and if you think GTA5 is a better example of "visual fidelity", theres no point arguing further with you.
     

  16. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    Another DLSS shot. Tons of detail, incl the buildings on right, left. But theres that anomalous no.12 building. It may be an anomaly or there may be several more, but never noticed them in game.

    https://cubeupload.com/im/taco/14jpg.jpg
     
  17. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    I'll give you 3 games rendered at 4K. Then person being cut from it from distance where they have approximately same size.
    One is 16 years old, other is 7 years old and last is brand new.
    upload_2021-3-22_18-50-44.png

    Left: CP2077 screenshot from you.
    Middle: HL2 which is technologically ancient by now with its 16 years.
    Right: Payday 2 which is 7 y/o.

    There is clear difference between amount of details available on each human "object" of similar size. And same applies to other details in games.
     
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  18. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    Again you miss the point. Which is to what degree these undetailed objects spoil the overall IQ of the game. Is that CP image the main focus, or zoomed in from some periphery that is hardly noticed? You seem to want to rubbish the whole games IQ on account of some unnoticeable anomalies in game play. Vast majority of ppl who actually play the game are very impressed with the overall IQ and presentation. Then there are forum detectives only focused on fishing out anomalies from zoomed in screenshots.
     
  19. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Nothing is zoomed. All of those are 1:1 renders at 4K. It is exactly same as you would see on your screen if you had in all those games same field of view and distance from characters.
    There is no trickery.

    You can launch HL2 for yourself, it is literally start of the game and it took me like 30 seconds to get to that area as I was looking for 1st character which would remain in direction of player and was far enough to have similar size.

    And that Payday 2 image is same thing, it is in hideout accessible from main menu.
     
  20. cucaulay malkin

    cucaulay malkin Ancient Guru

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    what settings though ?
    all modern open world games I've played in the recent years have quality settings for crowd detail.and thank allah they do.
    you can seriously cut down the amount of lesser detail.I swear I can get my gtx1070 to run odyssey as fast or faster than 2070 super I used to own,you'll see quite a difference,but in lower level detail - that is mostly when you look for it.volumetrics,reflection detail,crowd detail,dof detail,shadow crispness around very complex objects,contact shadows.they all cost a ridiculous amount of gpu power once you want them on ultra.
    I played over 400hrs of that game on ultra,on 1080ti and 2070s,and damn I could hardly see the difference when I tweaked the settings,that is unless I knew where to look.The game still looked fantastic.Like I said - huge difference,but not an obvious one.

    I wonder if you could do selective dlss,that is reconstruct what's on the perifery on your vision while maintaining native res for the foreground.with a lower but still noticeable performance gain.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021

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