1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

NVIDIA Titan V Raytraces Battelfield V in RTX mode at proper perf (but does not have any RT cores).

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,066
    Likes Received:
    5,098
    GPU:
    AMD | NVIDIA
    toyo, warlord and pharma like this.
  2. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    9,736
    Likes Received:
    2,197
    GPU:
    5700XT+AW@240Hz
    "However, the findings raise the question, are dedicated RT in hardware cores actually needed?"
    That's not the question I would and do ask.

    I do ask: "Are there actually dedicated RT in RTX cards?"

    I did ask this before, but it does not hurt to repeat question: "Is anyone who knows details of DX-R able to say what kind of mathematical instructions are required by DX-R?"
    Because if it is something like FP16, then Titan V is twice as fast as 1080Ti and still bit faster than RTX 2080Ti.

    It should be known that DX-R is part of Microsofts DX12, therefore instructions should not be proprietary.
    Some nV guys here with BF V willing to trick game into thinking that you have RTX card?
     
  3. flashmozzg

    flashmozzg Member Guru

    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    6
    GPU:
    R9 290 4GB @ 947/1250
    I wonder if it'l work for an AMD card o_O...
     
  4. Glottiz

    Glottiz Master Guru

    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    124
    GPU:
    Strix 1080Ti
    I knew it, I f-ing knew it that something like this will possible. Now let's see how quickly Nvidia release new "hotfix" drivers that block all possible RTX hacks on Pascal GPUs :D
     

  5. Akumu

    Akumu Member

    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    4
    GPU:
    4000mhz 16gb g.skill
    Very interesting.
     
  6. MK80

    MK80 Active Member

    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    15
    GPU:
    Gtx1070
    How did they do if the game refuses to connect RTX out of rtx2000 graphics? It has already been tried by UFD Tech and they could not get it even using a 2080 ti to start the game and then move on to another graphics card. For me it's fake ..
     
  7. GlennB

    GlennB Master Guru

    Messages:
    206
    Likes Received:
    51
    GPU:
    Sapphire Vega 56 EK
    Raytracing has already been working on AMD cards for quite a while. GCN has a ton of cumpute power to handle raytracing.

    https://gpuopen.com/gaming-product/radeon-rays/

    Dubbed Radeon Rays, the company’s ray tracing developer suite will now support real-time ray tracing in Radeon Rays 2.0. The new engine is compatible with OpenCL 1.2. Built on Vulkan, Radeon Rays 2.0 leverages the API’s advanced support for asynchronous compute to make real-time ray tracing a reality.
     
    Keitosha likes this.
  8. Great White Shark

    Great White Shark Member

    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    12
    GPU:
    GTX 1070 Jetstream
    I really do think that Nvidia have released the RTX cards really badly. Too expensive, not enough Ray Tracing support. I'm hoping the new 7 nanometer cards will drive the prices down for RTX. But it won't be soon.
     
    BReal85 likes this.
  9. BReal85

    BReal85 Master Guru

    Messages:
    325
    Likes Received:
    100
    GPU:
    ASUS 270X DC2 TOP
    And the question raises: why? They have all the money to release a more powerful card, or they can simply releasea 700-900 like generation leap with a decrease in price like it was in that case.
     
  10. nevcairiel

    nevcairiel Master Guru

    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    187
    GPU:
    MSI 1080 Gaming X
    The number of rays they advertise is an order of magnitude lower then NVIDIAs however, which makes the real difference between real-time gaming use, or "just" using it in 3D graphics design and rendering.

    Doing Ray Tracing itself isn't "new", doing it really fast is what was missing.
     
    yasamoka likes this.

  11. Venix

    Venix Master Guru

    Messages:
    932
    Likes Received:
    320
    GPU:
    Palit 1060 6gb
    if i had to take a wild guess why they did that ... my speculation is that the gpu is a huge monolithic die i really really doubt their yields on 100% functional ones are the best around , so what ever is not good enough to make it as a quadro it trickles down to the gaming gpus instead of throwing em away.
     
  12. Raider0001

    Raider0001 Master Guru

    Messages:
    408
    Likes Received:
    8
    GPU:
    MSI RTX 2070 Armor
    doesn't matter how fast your system would render rays, the option is locked out for all other cards in BF V for a reason or not we do not know !?
     
  13. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    9,736
    Likes Received:
    2,197
    GPU:
    5700XT+AW@240Hz
    That's not way to do it. Did they not learn a thing about graphical drivers? That's why you can't use modern drivers on ancient graphics card. There are no code paths for given architectures.

    Way to go is to persuade driver that your GTX card is actually RTX card. One of ways is just change HW ID in driver's inf file for installation. Other way is to change HW ID in vBIOS.
    I did that few times in past. Especially with Fury X release as performance was not exactly as expected. And making driver believe that it is different card yielded different performance results.

    When Polaris launched and there were some new features, I just changed HW IDs in vBIOS and had some mixed results.

    To put it simply:
    HW <-> Driver <-> Windows Libraries <-> Game

    Driver takes HW an exposes its abilities to windows libraries, in this case to Direct3D. That reports supported features to game.
    This is done per device, therefore having 2 different cards will result in 2 different sets of features exposed.

    Hack can be done on multiple places. Easiest is to trick driver. Bit more risky is vBIOS mod. And most reliable is actually creating wrapper library between game and Direct3D libraries.
    Those will report whatever they (you) want to game and then do whatever they (you) want with instructions returned by game.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
    Duke Nil and cookieboyeli like this.
  14. Caesar

    Caesar Master Guru

    Messages:
    726
    Likes Received:
    258
    GPU:
    GTX 1070Ti Titanium
    I was wondering about this fact.

    While playing shadow of tomb raider also....notice the reflections (with my 1070Ti)...
    Is that software or hardware really?
     
  15. claydough

    claydough Active Member

    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    4
    GPU:
    EVGA gtx 1080fe
    is this not expected? Wasn't NVIDIA’s RTX technology originally developed...
    powered on Volta GPUs? ( I imagine an RT core SM was originally tweaked on Volta SM accelerated in tandem with Nvidia's software component to real time ray tracing? )
    With 8 years of development wouldn't Volta benefit from the final version of Nvidia's RTX software technology?
    Kind of wondering how the original Nvidia Raytracing Demos that ran on Volta ( like the Starwar's "Reflections" demo ) might run today as the software has probably matured alot since release?



    Quote : "
    The demonstration is powered by NVIDIA’s "RTX technology for Volta GPUs", available via Microsoft’s DirectX Ray Tracing API (DXR)...
    "

    So I imagine RTX is then supported for Volta as well???

    ( or hopefully the RTX component used to develop the tech leveraging Volta hardware is not abandoned )
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
    Aura89 and FranciscoCL like this.

  16. fellix

    fellix Member Guru

    Messages:
    168
    Likes Received:
    10
    GPU:
    KFA² GTX 1080 Ti
    Turing has the same relative transistor density to Pascal, which suggests that whatever dedicated RT logic is there in Turing it's rather simple ad-hoc solution to the existing compute resources. The rest of the architectural changes are way more significant than RTX.
    Ray-tracing is also very demanding on the memory sub-system and I can only guess HBM2 used for Volta is a major contributor to the RTX performance numbers, along with the large internal caches and registers.
    In the case for Battlefield V, ray-traced reflections require a lot more work from the graphics pipeline, since each reflection is actually rendered "projection", accumulated along the ray-path. The ray traversal alone is not that much costly (memory latency sensitive), particularly at single sample per pixel and utilized for one effect only.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  17. tensai28

    tensai28 Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,416
    Likes Received:
    365
    GPU:
    2080ti MSI X TRIO
    Volta was originally intended to run ray tracing, wasn't it?
     
  18. anxious_f0x

    anxious_f0x Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    1,520
    Likes Received:
    268
    GPU:
    RTX 2080Ti SLi
    DXR in BF:V was initially developed using Titan V's before the 2080Ti's were available to DICE so not really that surprising.
     
    K.S. and tensai28 like this.
  19. FM57

    FM57 Member Guru

    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    46
    GPU:
    Palit RTX 2070
    Do you mean BF:V would actually only be software supported for ray tracing, and not using the RT cores physically ? We would not have really seen the true power of the RTX architecture (2019 wishful thinking...) ?
     
  20. warlord

    warlord Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,365
    Likes Received:
    777
    GPU:
    Null
    Nvidia guy seems had a reason, to put his signature in Titan V JHH CEO Edition. It is still the top dog for every single one application out there. You can't say the same for Titan RTX. One more reason to drag Nvidia to court. Titan RTX should never have beed released for that price. What a scam!
     

Share This Page