NVIDIA Snags Away Market Share From AMD, now sells 80 percent of dedicated GPUs

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Aug 27, 2020.

  1. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Have you had it from @Undying and myself? Or is it because you categorize us as AMD guys and therefore you feel it is right behavior?

    Do you go with "AMD people bad" now? And this conversation should lead only in one direction. Respectful direction... Disagreement or not, but respectful.
     
  2. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    I am pointing out the kind of attitude being portrayed is exactly that which made many of us hate being part of the AMD community.
    You help destroy the brand you argue for.
    I honestly want this to change for the better, but I see its never going to.

    I have never seen things get so bad in NVidia forums.
     
  3. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    The usual suspects can also be found hating on almost every Nvidia news threads. I got my first temp ban here calling them out.
     
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  4. kings

    kings Member Guru

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    What does that have to do with what we are talking about? We are talking about performance and how good or not the PS5 GPU is, based on this demo.

    But if you want to talk about prices, yes, PC is more expensive than consoles, what a shocker...
     

  5. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Here the problem. When you have few dozens of people with same HW and software configuration, either all of them have same software issue, or none of them have issue.
    If just one has it, it is very likely not software that's same as rest of people have. This one particular case has software in different configuration than rest. Or they have HW issue.

    It is simple. Would you take that card out of your system and placed it into mine with exact same HW configuration, it would either work as well as mine did or it would start showing your particular issue.
    In case issue traveled with card => HW.
    In case issue did not travel with HW => software in source machine.

    As you may know, I have been running those cards with high refresh rate screens before high refresh rates even became popular. I have been running them with multiple screens too.
    Worst thing I ever faced was high idle clock on VRAM as I did not like unnecessary power draw. Which is funny, because even with 240Hz screen, current RX 580 in my system actually downclocks VRAM to 300MHz. (Seems like bad AMD did not abandon attempts to make it work for older cards.)
    (I have swapped my RX 5700 XT with bro for his RX 580, so he has upgrade. And I can wait a while for RDNA2.)
     
  6. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    You dont get it, I'm talking about the problems I had and how I was treated. Other people can relate the same.
    You have no care for what I went through. Talking cross purposes helps nothing.

    I had similar treatment on HardOCP a long time back.
    A few years later Kyle and co. got their own taste of it and realised how bitter it was to have problems with AMD kit.
    Many bans ensued.

    I dont want AMD to sink, I want them to do better.
    But bad treatment from AMD forum members was not a small part of the problem.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
  7. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Please visit nVidia driver section. From time to time, when people go way too much berserk on AMD's drivers, I just open newest driver thread there. (No need to go into past, it's always same.)
    Current drivers:
    GSOD
    BF5 crashes under DX12
    Dishonored 2 stutters like hell across multiple drivers and GPUs (last one user has now is 2080 Ti)
    New COD unplayable
    ...

    Yet, those are very likely not driver or HW issues because people around can't reproduce them. Those are likely OS and/or software misconfiguration or data corruption.
    They are told that it is their own issue and not driver. As some of those issues persists for very long time, users are not willing to accept that they should deal with software on their systems. And instead continue with "driver not working".

    I can't know what exact issue you had and what was cause. But both camps have issues on random for some users. And neither camp members can help with systemic issues in other way than to visit affected user and fix it on place by clean, proper install. Or declare bad HW when unreplicable issue persist on particular system through perfectly done clean install.
    (2 months ago, I had to RMA MB for my cousin as it was refusing to run in dual channel. Only one memory did work in certain slot configurations. And it had extremely high auto timings. I spent 6 hours testing different slots, settings, BIOSes before declaring that MB is bad. I tested all things in two systems too. But I still exactly isolated issue and describe exact behavior under each use case for RMA.)

    There is difference between knowing exactly where problem is and going for solution. And pointing finger into wrong direction and waiting for solution that can't come from there.
    Your AMD issue simply was not replicable with nVidia. Good for you. But it does not mean, you know what was the cause.
     
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  8. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Jesus
    I'm well away.
    Is your name Deflectus Maximus?
     
  9. itpro

    itpro Maha Guru

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    People hoping for more fine wine to get drunk plus those believers of rdna2 faith, these are worse victims than console gamers. At least, consoles ps4 and xbox one were always more stable and reliable than their pc counterparts. That means something. People gave so much credit to amd for nothing. They were never a part of console's programming and games' development. They only provided the hardware and its instructions. Everyone, everywhere agrees amd has great and cheap hardware with basic drivers. At least Nvidia's premium price pays up for expert software engineers' salary.

    If fanboys start telling, rdna3 will have fixed issues and better drivers than rdna2, like they do now with rdna, Nvidia will rise to 90% dgpu market.
     
  10. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Would you have newbie account and pretend same issues in nVidia's section, you would get same treatment as in AMD's.
    Same goes for nVidia's vs AMD's owned forums. Here, you get benefit of many members liking you and trying their best to help.

    It is not deflection to state truthfully that random issues happen in both camps. Sure, black screen was relatively common or at least users were vocal enough about it to make it look like more than few had it. (Few users had it here too.)
    But when same make of card with same vBIOS and driver did not have it with same HW component configuration for 95~99% of users, it tells you something.
    It either points towards HW, or something else that can be isolated in given systems.

    Btw. I mentioned it in one of driver threads too. My cousin got my old PC long time ago. And when he got even my old 144Hz screen, he started to have black screens (which recover) on exactly same HW that worked fine for me. He has poor electric installation and had worst imaginable cable management. He simply had interference on cable between computer and monitor which got stronger due to bad electric installation in his house.

    I could have just pick that system, move it into my home, and it would behave well. (Issue undeniably existed and still exists regardless of drivers. AMD may have mitigated it to certain degree through control of electric behavior card has, but sometimes, driver can't do anything.)
    There is no Fine Wine (tm) with RDNA. GCN's fine wine came because GCN needed optimizations, and AMD themselves had poorly optimized drivers for it from start. HD7970 got like 15% performance within 3 month from release. And those 12.11 beta drivers gave it jump so big, that Fine Wine (tm) became a thing.

    But RDNA1 is well thought on HW level, therefore no miraculous software optimizations should be expected. RDNA2 changes may make it quite better than RDNA1, but again, nobody should expect driver level miracles. If there are RDNA2 cards with different count of SMs per CU than 64, that may be bit different story. But main improvement in RDNA1 were data handlingof waves with caches and scheduling. In case some RDNA2 card has this different configuration, I would expect HW scheduler to be adjusted too.

    Either way, no miracles, unless card badly under performs at launch relatively to RDNA1.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
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  11. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    lol, you just dont stop.
    This is exactly why I need to stay away from AMD support.
    You cant address what I am concerned about, only deflecting to something else.
     
  12. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    AMD drivers bad.

    See, I just did only thing you wanted. Because your card is gone. You no longer can replicate and solve that issue. Otherwise you would state it and wrote that it still prevails.
    (And I am not AMD's support. Neither I did provide you any support here. As you did not state in discussion that you have currently any particular AMD related issue. Therefore nobody can address it.)

    If your concern is: "AMD drivers bad."
    Then our conversation shown that nothing else than reply: "AMD drivers Bad!" will satisfy you.
    I do not mind. It is opinion, we can disagree. I would still like to help you and see actual issue, exact behavior and so on. But I understand that those things are in past and you are happy with nVidia. And it is good, because issue simply was not replicable there.

    I just hope that you can visit driver section, and help solve nVidia "driver problems" users have there, but with same empathy you expect.
    Like this way: "I know, you are right, it is driver problem. But please, do following driver unrelated things..."
    (Those people there need as much help as you needed. You have not got that help, maybe you can provide it to them.)
     
  13. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    You havent engaged with me at all, your posts are deflective fluff.
    And wads of it.
    Your not posting is preferable.
    You dont even know the problems I had and havent asked for them until now.
    This isnt the thread for that though.

    I replied to another forum member, describing how tough a time I had.
    You made sure it is even worse, well done ;)
    You covered Stormyandcolds post #64 to a tee.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
  14. bobblunderton

    bobblunderton Master Guru

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    I'm part of why, in the last year, Radeon lost market share to nVidia. I love AMD, I love both my 3700x and 3950x for content creation - and for the gaming power also (when games make use of it any-who). But I CANNOT stand what Radeon was by Q4 2019.
    Crashed out my game in editor mode / content creation mode.
    Crashed out Maya and Blender.
    Some driver versions worked with two monitors but not with one shut off, as they'd cause a 1 second pause every few seconds. Some driver versions would get that hitching anytime a second monitor was connected. I am trying to work here, I don't have time to play musical drivers.
    Scrambled the desktop finally and that was the day my RX 480 8gb went into the rubbish bin like the trash it was. Never did that one on Windows 7.
    Never again. I would have assumed 'bad card' but EVERYONE I KNEW with Polaris anything had some combination of issues with it.
    I promptly plopped my R7850 2gb Asus Direct CUII model in the PC - which worked like a charm and did none of this mind you aside of the multi-monitor glitches... and ordered myself a 2070 Super. Put up with mud textures for about 4 days until the 572$ 2070 Super got here. Was thankful upon install it didn't have any RGB or LED stuff, after-all this isn't a kid's computer here, this is my workstation. It needs not compensate visually for anything else in life.

    Long story short, outside of anything that I can install enterprise / pro-line drivers on, I don't want ANY Radeon card at all, unless it's got 16gb and pro-line drivers.
    I am retired/disabled physically, so I have plenty of time, but with but one life to live, I have 0 time to waste. So while other people can get 90% the performance of a 2070 / 2070 Super or there-about with a nice AIB 5700XT with or without an overclock for a little over HALF what I overpaid for this card, I can't afford to lose a half hour or more of work every time the thing decides to crash out. Even copy / paste UV operations were crashing out!

    At-least my Fallout 4 doesn't have the corrupt shader glitch anymore. That's enough to make me NEVER go back to AMD in itself, even if it costs double not to. I still like to play that one (though Fallout 76 can go get shoved where the sun doesn't shine, I've only got satellite internet here in the boonies).

    IF AMD gets their you-know-what in order in the future years, maybe I'll give Radeon another shot. It's doubtful though - definitely NOT happening in the time of this project I'm working on. That rain-on-the-parade for Radeon has nothing bad that it can do to my absolute love of Ryzen Zen 2 series ("my hero!"), though.
    Ryzen rocks, 570 chip-set is pretty bangin', but Radeon polaris = poolaris.
    Sad part is, if it was just game issues, I wouldn't care so much. While I miss the money I could have saved on a 5700XT purchase in-stead, I really don't miss the bugs and peculiarities of Poolaris one bit.
    In doing tests, the Polaris cards on many systems with Windows 10 exceed their core clocks. This won't destabilize all cards, just ones that aren't the fastest yields (it will affect 470/480 cards much more than a 590 for example). So with no overclocking anything on this PC, it took off on it's own, going over the stock 'factory overclock' speed of 1288mhz core and all the way up to around 1309~1312mhz or so on 'max performance' power plan in Windows 10 (it did not do this in Windows 7). This caused: Hitching, lots of it, long hitches too like as in several seconds to 10 seconds long. CTD, random programs crashing out, frozen apps, and the occasional black screen (more often for some, was pretty rare here to get a black screen but I do remember a few).
    Sad part is all this 'core clock too high' stuff was going on without any OC options set in BIOS. It wasn't my computer, as it happened on others, too, even some that 'couldn't' overclock. I couldn't seem to stop it unless I deliberately lowered the core clock 50mhz with MSI AB (which I installed after about two to four weeks of this issue happening, to figure it out before it drove me mad). Some users only needed to drop it 40mhz, others needed a full 75~100mhz taken off. That stopped the hitching or made it much less, eventually when dropped far enough took away all related hitching and related app crashes from the drivers.
    Are nVidia drivers perfect?
    Only bug(s) I have with nVidia drivers is sometimes some windows don't layer properly in Windows 10 (things taking priority when should not), and occasional missing carriage in Maya text boxes.

    A good video card at a great price is a wonderful thing to enjoy, but if you cannot enjoy using it due to constant many-times-a-day crashing - be it for games or work - then it's not worth a penny. Some people would say 'it's your Seasonic power supply, it's your motherboard, it's your OS install, it's this or that blah blah', rubbish, all issues went away when that card did.
    I will close this out with saying, that while the RT gimmickery isn't useful for games beyond Quake II RTX (which I REALLY enjoyed being almost 40 years old), it's super-duper useful piping out a screen render in Maya in 1/10th to 1/6th the time my stock 3950x with paltry 3000mhz cl-15 RAM will do. It's also useful in Substance Designer for live-rendering a very accurate texture lighting scene when creating textures. Basically it's much more useful for game development than it is for the games themselves.
     
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  15. Margalus

    Margalus Master Guru

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    The thing is, AMD gpus have a higher rate of failure also according to retailer statistics on returns.
     

  16. user1

    user1 Ancient Guru

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    That is true though i would argue that they can't really do the same kind of optimization that nvidia has done, nvidia has like 2 decades of game specific optimizations built up, ati/rtg doesn't have the resources to rebuild it, I dont think anyone does, Dx11/9 wont get fixed there just isn't a way to do that from a practical perspective.

    they put alot of focus on vulkan and dx12 because it reduces their workload substantially, the vulkan > dx translation is godsend (even for nvidia), many games run faster on all fronts due to the implementation of actual multi-threading, its kind of what nvidia already does internally , its also eliminates the effects of many of the vendor specific optimizations/hacks in the games themselves, which will run poorly or break on other hardware, I think its the way forward for all future gpus to support older apis, and actually get the benefits of the extra performance and features.
     
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  17. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    Jokes on you Nvidia.... I can't afford your video cards..

    *sad laughing*
     
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  18. So if RDNA 2 fails AMD is basically done in the DGPU space.
     
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  19. itpro

    itpro Maha Guru

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    There will always be royalties and fanbase that will buy a product no matter what. I believe if amd doesn't fix a tons of issues, market will clear up in dgpus. This round we will see those regulars vs loyals to a brand. Next year Intel also comes to the game. I am officially worried.

    2021-2022 will either put a nail coffin to nvidia's competition and make Jensen the gpu emperor or true battles are gonna unfold and push nvidia to 50% vs Intel with AMD. There isn't other way.
     
  20. Spets

    Spets Ancient Guru

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    As we've seen in this thread AMD will always have blind devotion from their fanbase to keep selling their dGPU's and being toxic on every NV thread.
     

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