NVIDIA Releases SDK allowing Global Illumination through Ray-Tracing for any GPU supporting DXR

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Mar 25, 2020 at 7:01 PM.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

    Messages:
    37,317
    Likes Received:
    6,374
    GPU:
    AMD | NVIDIA
  2. MBTP

    MBTP Member Guru

    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    7
    GPU:
    Sapphire RX590
    I call it preemptive strike.
    I wonder if developers using the Series X will be caught on that.
    Very tempting to use an already developed code...
    don't bite that bait.
     
  3. David3k

    David3k Active Member

    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    19
    GPU:
    Graphics Processing Unit
    This is GameWorks all over again.
     
  4. jbscotchman

    jbscotchman Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    3,733
    Likes Received:
    2,698
    GPU:
    MSI 1660 Ti Ventus
    Good news indeed.
     
    fantaskarsef and Maddness like this.

  5. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    5,278
    Likes Received:
    1,571
    GPU:
    GTX 1080ti
    no it isn't.

    and the only hate for gameworks was because AMD had hardware that wasn't up to the task,

    RDNA is.
     
    fantaskarsef likes this.
  6. Maddness

    Maddness Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,044
    Likes Received:
    280
    GPU:
    Asus Strix RX 480
    I see this as a positive move.
     
    fantaskarsef and jbscotchman like this.
  7. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    7,511
    Likes Received:
    1,733
    GPU:
    ASUS RX 470 Strix
    This is basically Nvidia seeing AMD is supporting raytracing on the big two next gen consoles.
     
    fantaskarsef and Luc like this.
  8. Luc

    Luc Active Member

    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    43
    GPU:
    RX 480 | Gt 710
    I hope it will really be optimized, but not the same old history, forcing every consumer to buy an expesive new card, no matter the brand, to been allowed to see lightning effects or shadows...

    I always thought that standard open libraries are the best way to build visuals in a wide range of games, instead the usual marketing campaings, locking common graphic effects in some sponsored games (like aliasing or physics), making even their strongest last gen cards look like toys and leaving a pile of downgrades and bugs behind...

    But if GTX 10 series can deliver enough performance and visuals too, maybe everyone can enjoy ray traced effects in new games, at least at 1080p.

    Its quite clear now, that David Wang from AMD already knew what will happen and they where waiting for next gen consoles to offer DXR on every new card.

    Let's see what comes next... finger crossed for physics and AI on every CPU and ray traced effects on every GPU :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020 at 10:57 PM
    Fox2232 and DeskStar like this.
  9. DeskStar

    DeskStar Master Guru

    Messages:
    743
    Likes Received:
    104
    GPU:
    4 eVGA GTX TITAN SC

    Yes please!.!.! I've got CPU cores for days baby!!
     
    Luc likes this.
  10. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    9,950
    Likes Received:
    2,298
    GPU:
    5700XT+AW@240Hz
    nVidia's HW is not up to the task as well. And CPUs are not up to the task too for effects run via CPU.
    There is choice to be made by developer: "Either mediocre visual implementation of bad performance."

    It never reaches close to tech demos nVidia shows on video only... And releases 4 years later when it works on high end HW.
     
    jura11 and Luc like this.

  11. Agonist

    Agonist Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,782
    Likes Received:
    191
    GPU:
    RX Vega 56 8GB
    Lots Nvidia users hated gameworks too.
    I did and I,was running 2x GTX 970s at the time.

    My 290x crossfire ran gimpworks just fine.
    It's the fact nvidia forced developers to lock AMD out of the game source code and engine if the games use gimpworks. AMD could not even have a driver ready for the game till after launch.
     
  12. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    1,622
    Likes Received:
    355
    GPU:
    .
    Do not confuse GameWorks with closed binaries with GameWorks completely open. Most of GameWorks now are completely open.
     
    jbscotchman likes this.
  13. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    12,654
    Likes Received:
    1,878
    GPU:
    EVGA 1080Ti
    Source it. I've never seen such a thing. For a while Nvidia didn't provide source for Gameworks libraries but they do now - I've never seen them lock AMD out of the games source or engine, ever. In fact the two times AMD did mention GameWorks, it didn't even make sense. With Project Cars, AMD responded to a poster that claimed GPU PhysX was destroying AMD's performance (the game didn't even have GPU PhysX) the developer responded back and said AMD had access to the game for months with no communication what-so-ever to the developer:
    With Witcher 3 Richard Huddy said:
    But there is videos of the game with Hairworks a year before it shipped out. The whole thing was demoed at GDC over a year before it launched. They knew it had Hairworks, yet they never requested for builds with hairworks (presumably or they did and just did nothing) and they knew their geometry performance was trash in their architecture. So I guess they decided to just handwave the whole thing away with "ehh we need sourcecode!" And now all the source is available for all GameWorks libraries and yet no magical drivers came out and fixed the performance or issues AMD had.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020 at 6:03 PM
    fantaskarsef and yasamoka like this.
  14. Luc

    Luc Active Member

    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    43
    GPU:
    RX 480 | Gt 710
    The evidence:

    https://www.techpowerup.com/104868/batman-arkham-asylum-enables-aa-only-on-nvidia-hardware-on-pcs

    And every old PhysX game I played didn't run well enought on their own cards, for quite common physics that even my crappy GT 710 DDR3 can push nowadays...

    At Nvidia they say that don't pay as an sponsor, that they only give away graphic cards and workforce (a lot of money) to implement their "Gameworks", but we must always remember what happened with Watchdogs and Batman Arkham Knight ports to PC...

    I want to think that things were a little different with CDProyect Red, because they are a reliable studio and they didn`t allowed too much crap in their game, but again 64x tessellation on hair... looks like a desperate move to cripple everything in a nosense.

    Every GPU maker look for an advantage over rivals: AMD does it through consoles (in the past TressFX, Mantle, etc.), triying to improve performance on their hardware but giving this progress to everyone, while Nvidia always found a way to make every card on the market feels poor except their new gen flagship, while pushing prices higher than ever for a consumer part...

    I know what to expect, but I hope for an open implementation in new games.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020 at 10:52 PM
  15. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    12,654
    Likes Received:
    1,878
    GPU:
    EVGA 1080Ti
    How is this a source? Where in this article does it say that the developer locked AMD out of the engine and/or source code for the game but gave Nvidia access?

    Furthermore:
    From PCPer:
    Throughout this whole period of time - from when AMD purchased ATi, to honestly pretty recently - AMD was notorious for not supporting game developers. S2 games for example made the biggest stink about it with Savage 2. Where they claimed they actually had Nvidia help them get the game working on AMD hardware because AMD didn't have the resources to help indie game developers.

    Also Richard Huddy just straight up lies left and right anyway.

    Remember when he said 4GB of HBM = 12GB of GDDR5? Fury X owners remember.
    TressFX had the nearly the same problem that AMD claimed with HairWorks:

    https://www.pcgamer.com/tomb-raider...ing-looked-at-by-nvidia-and-crystal-dynamics/

    Notice how unlike AMD, they just said they were working on drivers and with developer to fix the issue instead of pointing fingers. Oh and they did it without the source code because TressFX didn't release source until months later.

    Don't get me wrong - I think AMD is a completely different company under Lisa Su.. most of the people at that time are long gone. But a lot of these things people bring up are from a time when AMD/Nvidia's architectures were moving in radically different directions and both companies were trying to develop features that were optimized for their own products. I think it's asinine to keep bringing them up, especially when most of the issues with Gameworks (for example it being closed source) is no longer an issue.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020 at 11:25 PM
    Stormyandcold, fantaskarsef and Luc like this.

  16. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    5,278
    Likes Received:
    1,571
    GPU:
    GTX 1080ti
    sadly Richard Huddy is still present and lying.
     
  17. Luc

    Luc Active Member

    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    43
    GPU:
    RX 480 | Gt 710
    From the source:

    "AMD's Ian McNaughton in his recent blog thread said that they had confirmed this by an experiment where they ran ATI Radeon hardware under changed device IDs. Says McNaughton: "Additionally, the in-game AA option was removed when ATI cards are detected. We were able to confirm this by changing the ids of ATI graphics cards in the Batman demo. By tricking the application, we were able to get in-game AA option where our performance was significantly enhanced." He further adds that the option is not available for the retail game as there is a secure-rom."

    I can confirm you that the developer changed their game core and deleted/modified their whitelist to allow AMD to use AA, after months of criticism from all the gaming comunity. At the end, they did it between poor excuses, in an attempt to clean their public image, and it looks like they accomplished it.

    I didn't knew about that game nor if it was popular or niche in its time, so I cannot discuss about it, nor if AMD had money or it was their fault at all, but i'd like to trust you.

    Yeah, big fail by everyone there, they lied trying to hide the problem and the hype got things worst.

    Yes, AMD did the same they blame. At Nvidia they did it well, first they improved the stability, then they upgraded the performance with the source code. TressFX seemed to be rushed, I remember that even Radeon drivers weren't performing well when the game was released. But there is a big difference in time, talking about releasing the source code after launching the game (dirty) isn't the same as releasing PhysX code openly after 10 years being closed, because I don't know how many time GameWorks was closed.

    They must avoid those strategys, that's why this announcement is so encouraging, but we know how those old dogs used to be...

    I hope you are right, because we don't know how AMD RDNA2 will play with RTX on, and there exists the possibility that will only work on next-gen console ports.

    Lisa leadership is great, but she already thrown Vega VII to gamers when David Wang said that chip isn't for gaming.

    Maybe Intel can balance the situation between them, it could be a funny history.

    PS: sorry for the long post and my repetitive and/or bad english :oops:
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020 at 1:45 AM
  18. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    7,792
    Likes Received:
    266
    GPU:
    Zotac GTX1080Ti AMP
    Neither did Nvidia.

    Gameworks broke nearly every game it was implemented in even on Nvidia cards.

    Watch Dogs, broken
    Witcher 3, broken
    Arkham Knight, broken
    Metro Series, broken
    Crysis 2, broken

    These are just a few I can remember but nearly every time they added in these features it destroyed the frame rate on AMD but also Nvidia cards too. This is why its common knowledge that if you want a quick fix for getting better performance you ALWAYS disable these stupid features first and forget they even exist.

    Open standards are always better, this closed off garden Nvidia keeps locking themselves in does nothing but hurt the PC gaming industry. The sooner this stuff goes away the better for us all.
     
    Luc and KissSh0t like this.
  19. jbscotchman

    jbscotchman Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    3,733
    Likes Received:
    2,698
    GPU:
    MSI 1660 Ti Ventus
    ^^Don't forget Mafia 2. I'd say that was probably worst implementation of physics. Witcher 3 and Arkham Knight weren't that bad at release imo.
     
  20. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    12,654
    Likes Received:
    1,878
    GPU:
    EVGA 1080Ti
    I played more than half these games fine at launch (I never played WD or AK). No idea what you're talking about with the others - Crysis 2 I played on AMD card, the game was bad but it played fine. Also all of Nvidia's stuff is open now, including the item mentioned in the OP.
     

Share This Page