NVIDIA Officially Apologizes - Underestimated demand for RTX 3080 FE cards

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Sep 22, 2020.

  1. Fediuld

    Fediuld Master Guru

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    And? Does that prohibits somehow Nvidia to deliver another card AROUND the 1080ti/2070S/2080?

    Don't forget the 3070 is almost HALF the die size of the 3080/3090.
    And even if the 3090 is 20% faster not just mere 9-10% as some say, it would be around the area I am referring to. If it just 10% it will be at the 1080Ti area probably getting beaten by the Radeon VII also.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
  2. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    That's not how this went.

    Nvidia's launch video has three slides that show relative performance - one is labeled "Greatest Generational Leap" and the axis is labeled "relative performance" the bottom only reads: "Average performance across multiple popular graphic-intensive games at 4K" - In that slide it says 3080 is "up 2x 2080". RT is mentioned absolutely no where:

    https://i.redd.it/jbwgvy2dduk51.jpg


    In a completely different slide, the one you linked, it's specifically talking about RT performance. It doesn't mention 2x at all in that slide. In a post right after launch you said "up to 2x performance was for RTX only" and told everyone to go rewatch the video, everyone said no. They said no because that's not what the "up 2x" slide says, it says relative performance and says average of games. It doesn't mention RT at all. Also by the time you said that we literally had an example from Digital Foundry that showed a non-RT game doing 2x a 2080 (Doom) and a bunch of others at 70-80%. So why would anyone be questioning it at that point?

    Nvidia, a week later in Linus's video, clarifies that the 2x was referring to RT performance only - but both slides that mention 2x don't mention RT, only the 3rd slide, the one you're talking about mentions RT performance but it doesn't say 2x at all. Which makes Nvidia look even dumber than they did about the "twice the performance of 2080" slide.

    Also there is no way a 3070 is going to be around a 1080Ti.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
  3. Chechar51

    Chechar51 Member

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    [​IMG]
    This is how imagine nvidia directives right now, i do not believe they are sorry at all, im dead sure this is intentional
     
  4. theoneofgod

    theoneofgod Ancient Guru

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    What are the chances AMD have a 3080 competitive GPU? The 7nm node surely gives them a head start?
     

  5. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Pretty high - the only thing @Fediuld has been right about is that the 56CU Xbox GPU is very performant and yet relatively small in terms of die size. The density of RDNA2 seems to be much higher than RDNA1. There is no reason why AMD couldn't scale that up to compete with a 3080, with maybe the exception of overall cost. The problem AMD is going to have is that, A. TSMC's 7nm process is extremely expensive and B. They'd either need a massive bus to feed such a card because they don't have access to GDDR6x, or they need HBM2 on it - which significantly drives the cost of production up. So it's a balance act between hitting the right performance and not driving the cost up too much so that the margins don't make sense.

    Idk what the best course is for them honestly. If they already have a 56CU chip that, perhaps when clocked right, can nearly do 2080Ti performance - then they basically have a 3070 competitor and Microsoft essentially paid for it. Could they just release that as the top end card and rake in tons of profit and screw spinning a larger chip? Maybe.
     
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  6. suty455

    suty455 Master Guru

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    I like what your saying but a Bios file has been found that shows 80CUs and a nice wide bus to feed it with potentially 16gb...am hoping Nvidia is going to feel pain very soon
     
  7. Fender178

    Fender178 Ancient Guru

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    Not only that. Scalpers are to blame as well because they cheated to get cards by using bots which ties in to retailers as well since they have no security against it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
  8. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    The PS5 and Xbox Series X gives you clues to what supply of the AMD card will be like. It's not going to be any better than RTX3080. If anything, I'd bet on the supply of big Navi to be much worse than for RTX3080.

    If Nvidia users get their cards in November/December, then, AMD users aren't getting any until next year. If PS5 and XSX are really successful, then, you aren't getting any decent quantities of big Navi until Easter next year.
     
  9. Maddness

    Maddness Ancient Guru

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    Yeah, that's something that really worries me. I need a new card to make the most out of Cyberpunk 2077. So unfortunately I need it this year. If I'm unable to source a big Navi, then I don't have a choice but the get an Ampere card. I've been hanging out for the release of this game and I won't wait until next year to play it. My RX480 just won't do this game justice.
     
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  10. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    On paper the biggest Navi is over 2x a 5700XT in performance. In theory it could beat a 3090. What that will turn out to be in reality, however... we're obviously hoping for the best or the market is fracked for another who knows how many years.

    I've said it multiple times before: If the 80CU Navi fails, I'll be the most disappointed I've ever been about a product. For that matter I'll probably just give up all hope and buy an XBSX or something.
     
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  11. Icanium

    Icanium Ancient Guru

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    nVidia has a rich history of hateful actions and misinformation.
    #1 on my list of hateful action was when nvidia disabled GPU PhysX if a non-Nvidia card was detected on your computer.
    High on the list of misinformation was their lack of truthful communication about the GTX 970 4GB of memory.
    The list goes on and on.
    Some of their AIB partners were so ashamed of how customer felt cheated that they can up with a step up program that allow the customer to buy up to a better card if a new release happen within a given time period.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  12. HARDRESET

    HARDRESET Master Guru

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    Wow, was removed from my cart! Capturewhat.PNG
     
  13. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    number 1 on your list is a legitimate disabling of an untested combination.
     
  14. Supertribble

    Supertribble Master Guru

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    Welcome to the buying a 3080 experience. ^_^
     
  15. Maddness

    Maddness Ancient Guru

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    Legitimate or not, that was a poor thing to do. After all, they were still making money off the cards sold used to run PhysX. If there was issues, then they should have made a statement to that affect.
     
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  16. Icanium

    Icanium Ancient Guru

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    Nope, #1 on my list is as I said, a hateful action. I was not affected by this action as I've only owned radeon 9700pro and RX 5700XT.
    Radeon users purchased geforce for physX and didnt have any problems until nvidia's hateful action.
    If it was a legitimate action, I do not believe that this site would have allowed forums on how to enable physX on nonvidia systems.
    "Underestimated demand for RTX 3080 FE cards" Hate List grows longer with each release.
    nVidia does not have a history to justify giving them the benefit of the doubt.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  17. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    I doubt Nvidia did anything deliberate in this messed up launch. They simply cocked up somewhere. Companies can unwittingly fck up you know. I think they committed themselves to a launch where they presumed there would be enough stocks on day 1, but due to a mix of various things going wrong (late stock deliveries, bots/scalpers, overwhelming demand, etc), it messed up. Doing it "deliberately" is the stuff of conspiracy theorists. Its 'fashionable' to have a conspiracy theory amongst some. Its also 'fashionable' to hate Nvidia. Couple these 2 things together and you have a mouth-frothing, spaz fest in forums. :rolleyes:
     
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  18. toyo

    toyo Master Guru

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    Hateful is most definitely not the correct word here. I am still surprised that in 2020, people expect corporations to act morally, instead of being driven by profit and being either amoral or immoral. Nvidia is not even that bad, even with the 970 debacle, which I consider pretty lame as a former owner. Just a few things to compensate:
    - long time driver support. My HD 4850 support was basically abandoned by AMD very early. 2008 release, 2013 - last driver, no official Windows 10 support, just Win8 (not 8.1). 5 years.
    Meanwhile my 6600GT, release year 2004, latest driver 2015, 11 years of support.
    - Gsync Compatible implemented even though it competes against their own tech
    - RTX working, badly, but working on Pascal
    Also, the 970 VRAM issue, while annoying as hell, didn't turn out to be that much of an issue in games.
    But more importantly, stop expecting corporations to be moral entities. It's really cringe seeing fanbois and "x corporation good y corporation bad".
     
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  19. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    They... did.....

    When asked for the reason behind the change, an NVIDIA representative stated: "For a variety of reasons - some development expense some quality assurance and some business reasons NVIDIA will not support GPU accelerated PhysX with NVIDIA GPUs while GPU rendering is happening on non-NVIDIA GPUs."
     
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  20. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    Those... those are bad examples.

    - AMD's architectures have changed wildly vs nVidia in that time, and IIRC nearly the entire driver team was replaced. And who here would honestly be very upset at driver support being limited to 5 years? Yeah, I'd be a bit upset if I kept cards that long, but unless I'm remembering wrong, AMD were in a situation where it made sense.
    - "GSync Compatible" wasn't charity from nVidia, they did it because they realized very few want to buy GSync monitors considering the ~+$200 it tended to add to the price tag, and was slowly costing them some sales to AMD. That and they wanted to avoid artificially blocking/denying monitor support being added to their upcoming lawsuit for anti-competitive practices.
    - RTX "working" on Pascal was 100% done to be an advertisement/nudge people into buying RTX cards. They made sure to hardcore abuse that "RTX working" performance of Pascal cards in their slides during the 3080 release. "9009x faster than a 1080 Ti! Time to upgrade Pascal users!" - Jensen Huang, not reading the fine print.
    - The 970 VRAM lie ended up causing issues in Watch Dogs for me, it'd very clearly choke when going past 3.5GB and in some drivers it just wouldn't, it'd just sit at 3.5GB because going to that 1/7th speed 512MB remaining was probably a bigger hit on those drivers than just choking at the 3.5GB cap. nVidia knew exactly what they were doing when they advertised it as a 4GB card.

    Anyway, those are just your points, I'm not going to get started on why nVidia are in fact one of the worst offenders of all time, way up there with Intel. But go ahead and ask any company that's worked with Jensen what they think of him and nVidia.
     
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