Nvidia NIS, DSR , DLSS confusion

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by tsunami231, Apr 17, 2022.

  1. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    I been reading and i more i read the more i get confused

    DSR and DLSS do the same thing? example make 1080p monitor show 1440p/4K on 1080p monitor? but DSR has hit to actual is rendering 4k and scaling it back? and DLSS scaling it up to 1400p/4k? while not as good as actual rendering 4k it get close and runs as faster fps then native, correct?

    And NIS

    just take your native resolution (1080p) and renders at lower resolution aka 85% of it and scales it up native res while improving framerates and attempting to give better image then if you actual used res that was 85% of 1080p?

    more i read about the more i get confused. so basicly i only way i getting 4k on 1080p monitor is to use DSR and take same hit to performance as i would with actual rendering @ 4k or get gpu that supports DLSS which will get close to 4 quality on 1080p screen? but much better framerates?
     
  2. Horus-Anhur

    Horus-Anhur Ancient Guru

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    DSR is basically SuperSampling at a driver level.
    It render a game at a higher resolution, then downscales it to the native resolution of the screen. This means ach pixel gets sampled more times, and results in an image that is more accurate, has less aliasing and shimmering.
    The downside is that it has a big performance hit. This is only useful on games where you already have a lot of performance left on the GPU, like in older games. Or indies.
    It can also be useful to take cool screenshots in games, to show off in the internet.

    DLSS and NIS do the opposite. They render at a lower resolution than native, and then upscale it. Resulting in an increase in performance.
    NIS (and FSR) do this only with spatial information. So the result is limited. But it's a quick and easy way to implement an upscaler.
    DLSS uses temporal information, accumulated from jittered neighboring pixels. It accesses several buffers, like color, depth and movement, to predict more accurately how each frame will look.
    And it uses Machine Learning algorithms to combine all this information, to create the best upscaling technique.
    Because DLSS has access to so much information, it can even reconstruct some elements, resulting in better image than native resolution.
    The problem with temporal solutions is movement. When there is movement in game, these temporal solutions have limited information to accumulate data, the result is a bit of blurriness, compared to standing still.
    The other issue is ghosting. Even with access to motion vectors information, there might be some ghosting artifacts. Like trailing silhouettes, when characters or objects are moving.
     
  3. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    now i just more confused.

    DSR let me pick 4k on my 1080p monitor but with performance hit correct?
    but
    NiS and DLSS will not let me use 4k on a 1080p monitor instead it will use lower res say 900p and scale that up to 1080p and have image quality equal to or better in some cases?
    but
    IF i get a 4k Monitor both NIS and DLSS CAN result in better performance at 4k by scaling said low res up to 4k with DLSS being the better performance/image?

    so unless i have 4K monitor DLSS is usless to me As on a 1080p monitor i can already hit 60fps in 1080p in all my game. but it MIGHT be usefull at later time with new game like say 2077 if i can keep 60fps?

    am i understanding this correct, or am i just confusing me self more?
     
  4. Horus-Anhur

    Horus-Anhur Ancient Guru

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    DSR is for downsampling.
    NIS and DLSS are for upsampling.
     

  5. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    so in theory

    IF i had GPU that could push 4k? could i use DSR to downsample 4k to 1080p monitor then use NIS/DLSS to get that performance back? or do the 2 not work together?
     
  6. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    I just did test let know if i understand this correct. DSR 4x global for 4k desktop and games (1080p monitor)

    Example
    Hellblade set to DSR 4x (4k) res game ran 20fps ( nis dont work with DSR cause lower res need to be picked)
    Hellblade set to DSR 4x (4k) with FSR performance 50-60fps
    Hellblade set to DSR 4x (4k) with FSR ultra 30-40fps

    all while have better image then 1080p but being 4k ( AB overlay show 4k at lover super small like would be at 4k vs 1080p)

    So from my tested IF i want to run game at 4K on my monitor that is 1080p, I would need the game to support FSR like in case of hellblade pick DSR resolution in game and FSR "performance~ultra) and in case of DLSS I would need the game support DLSS and GPU to support it, and pick DSR 4k res in game then set DLSS ( performance~ultra)

    atlest from test it seem to work this way and NIS will not work in fashion do to both DSR and NIS requiring the game to be set said resolutions to work

    And if i would to get 4k Monitor I could just NiS or FSR (if a game supports it) and get some performance back
     
  7. Horus-Anhur

    Horus-Anhur Ancient Guru

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    FSR performance is 50% resolution scale. That means that at 4K, it's rendering at a base of 1080p.
    But FSR has some overhead. So the frame rate will be lower than 1080p native without DSR+FSR.
    The bigger the output resolution, the bigger the overhead. So you might want to consider a DSR with a smaller multiplier.
    Maybe render at 1440p, then use FSR Ultra Quality.

    But the best thing, considering that Hellblade uses UE4.26, is to use Epic's TAAU. This is a temporal solution, and is second only to DLSS (today).
    So turn off FSR, because you have a better upscaler in that game.
    Open the engine.ini of that game and add these lines.

    [/script/engine.renderersettings]
    r.TemporalAA.Upsampling=1
    r.Upscale.Quality=5
    r.PostProcessAAQuality=6
    r.ScreenPercentage= change this value to the resolution scale you want
    r.TemporalAACatmullRom=1

    This setting is to enable TAA gen5. It's a bit heavy. But it resolves image a bit better, with better detail and less ghosting.
    Experiment to see if you like it.
    r.TemporalAA.Algorithm=1
     
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  8. TimmyP

    TimmyP Guest

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    Just in case you are implying that TSR\TAAU can be superior to DLSS: it is fundamentally impossible with dedicated hardware acceleration.
     
  9. Horus-Anhur

    Horus-Anhur Ancient Guru

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    Read what I wrote, very carefully.
     
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  10. Dagda

    Dagda Master Guru

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    for example im using a rtx 2080 super on a 1080p 144hz monitor, by using DSR i will gain image quality but my frames will drop to even below 60 sometime if i also want everything at ultra with raytracing an everything.

    So here comes DLSS, i can get the best quality my 1080p monitor can get also getting the best framerates, so in my case i take DLSS as the best antialiasing solution ever made. And honestly the ghosting and artifacts people talk are not as bad as the ones found in TAA or TXAA and they are actually tolerable.
     

  11. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    eh I mess around with Nis and it has to many quirk and issue with it to be worth it. using atlest for me

    IF i use my 1080p monitor NIS overlay only show in game when i pick lower res not on my desktop that is running 1080p ( which seem correct behavior)


    IF i use my UHDTV NIS overlay show on desktop that is running 4k if fact is it show up reguarless of res picked, it seem to have issue with games that run HDR too. Skyrim dont seem to play nice NIS either.

    I thinking in end I Will get just 4k monitor run it at 1440p along with my 4k UHDTV which super clear compared to trying to run 1440p with DSR on my 1080p monitor.

    And when ever I get card that can push 4k and or more game use FSR/DLSS I will use those scaler.

    But Nis is not worth headache imo

    hopefull there some good sales for 4k monitor 4th july end the year
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2022
  12. Trunks0

    Trunks0 Maha Guru

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    ... there is no real advantage to doing that. The cost of displays will go down and the quality of the tech will go up. You shouldn't buy the display ahead of having the power to push it unless it's a stellar deal or the display unique in some way. Because it you just wait to get them both at the same time you will likely get a superior display.

    *late edit*
    Oh... I shouldn't discount the" you just want the display because it looks amzeballs". Because OLED is pretty sick lol.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2022
  13. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    Not really that confusing.
    The idea with DLSS/NIS is to use full Ray Tracing or other GPU intensive tasks and lessen some of the performance penalty that brings.
    DSR is for when you have more than enough GPU resources leftover and want to up the eye-candy a tad further than what is possible with in-game settings, it's like using supersampling beyond 1x in games that have such.
     
  14. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    Meh i just tried DSR and set all my game to DSR 1440p on my monitor, while keeping my desktop at 1080p, it no longer screw up desktop and icon placement like it did with prior drivers?

    DSR dont work with "windowed" or bordless window now? can force some game in to windows mode but it dont look like 1440p or even look like 1080p and other another game seem to revert 1080p ( AB overlay being size it would be for 1080p) but have 1440 window that cut off. in in game like skyrim soon as you pick windowed there is no DSR res.

    IF i ran even my desktop at 1440p i assume there would be no problem but that just make desktop blurry as hell.

    So long the game support fullscreen I can just use DSR for now, till i fiqure out what i doing with out the monitor thing
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2022
  15. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    You can't use DSR at higher settings than native resolution for windowed mode, it's fullscreen only.
     

  16. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    Well that explains why Skyrim ignore the DSR res when window mode is checked, and why when I can change a game from fullscreen to windowed it dont work right. guess it good thing Fullscreen mode more of hybrid these days it works with that fine. dont have normal huge deal when tabing out. which reason i stop using fullscreen back in the day for windowed/borderless

    I will just DSR my game to 1440p leave monitor at 1080p for desktop till i fiqure out the what i doing with the monitor
     
  17. Jobert

    Jobert Member Guru

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    There are plenty of games where you can select a DSR resolution above native such as Horizon Zero Dawn.
     
  18. SmokingPistol

    SmokingPistol Member Guru

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    And there are inferior devs today that still remind us why EFS matters for such titles like GoW to utilize DL/DSR properly as well.
     
  19. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    WINDOWED MODE?
     
  20. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    I think more game should just do what Nioh and Nioh 2 did, which allow resolutions above monitor native and did so internal so there is no need for DSR via the drivers

    Nioh was like first game to allow this and i liked it cause it worked view fullscreen and windows thought i get feeling that only worked cause the dynamic res crap
     

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