Nvidia kills GTX285, GTX275, GTX260 (rumor) abandoning High/Mid Market?

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce' started by pagusas, Oct 7, 2009.

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  1. YuKsS

    YuKsS Maha Guru

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    dude you make me THINK about.. if all this is true, now or in the near future. it will be sad for many ppl for sure.. i really like nvidia.. never try ati´s cards never..
    gt200 was strong enough to make a lot of ppl satisface..

    and YES, i guess you are rigth.. is all about business and dirty money, the dont care about our needs XD
     
  2. LedHed

    LedHed Banned

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    read this:

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/...a_of_Creating_Shortage_on_the_GPU_Market.html

    Plus why would NVIDIA fall out right before launching their first DX11 card that is supposed to spank the 5870?
     
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  3. rickyboy

    rickyboy Master Guru

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    Nvidia goal right now, is to stay alive. Keeping doors open the any and all business. I mean they employ many workers, who have families to feed and clothes and take care of. There concern is to keep making money, regardless of where it comes from, and if they have to switch tactics because of yields or because of production cost then they certainly will. As mentioned, behind close doors decisions are being made whether gt300 is viable or not, and i would imagine that gambling your lively hood on one piece of technology, is not something many are willing to do just for the crown of fastest hardware!!!!!
    Certainly Nvidia will make a statement soon enough.....
     
  4. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Because they are not about to launch it? They just started getting engineering samples back now. At the best they'll have it ready for a late Q1 2010 launch, at worst late Q2 launch. In the mean time what do they do? Keep losing money on the GTX285/275 and 260?

    I don't see why people think this is unrealistic. It's not like he's saying they are pulling out of the high end market completely, just until GT300 comes out. Because they literally have nothing to compete and it would cost more money to try with current generation technology.
     
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  5. Retow

    Retow Active Member

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    Sounds like a conspiricy theory rather than a factual article...

    I admire the attempt to make his article seem feasible by citing facts and probable real world events, but the paradigm shift that’s going on in the narrative is slightly bewildering.

    The fact is Nvidia currently have the largest market share out of the companies mentioned (off the top of my head steam hardware survey is a nice independent poll that’ll ratify that link ) so to leave an EVOLVING industry is really verging on unimaginable, especially if they’re in as much trouble as the author states.

    See whenever a company hits a rocky patch be it from external political / economic pressures like the recession or internal squabbling among the board the key action is focus on your core (read existing) business to keep cash flow and hopefully maintain a revenue stream. Once an improvement is observed or a clear strategy laid out based on favourable trends then you can start diversifying into other penetrable or emerging markets that are aware of your brand, Simples.

    Personally I’m glad that AMD are releasing great cards as while the profit margins are tight and there’s healthy competition in the sector ultimately, the consumer wins. Plus something the author seems oblivious to is once the 300 series GPU’s are out the 200’s will be previous generation hardware and if the desirability decreases while the manufacturing costs remain the same of course they’ll be retired from the marketplace in favour of the new and shiney! It’s even more of a no brainer if migrating the previous generations chip onto the smaller fab isn’t financially viable or worthwhile.

    GPUs as we know them will become a thing of the past well within the next decade so everyone involved needs to adapt or die ‘cos times they are a changing.

    Right now though the way it scales is pretty simple all the companies want to do is turn a profit off each new generation of hardware in as timely a fashion as possible. So say NVIDIA and AMD spend 1 Billion dollars developing a new architecture then that’s an instant loss you need to recoup from the finished product. The lower your yields the higher your unit cost and then a decision must be made on retail value that takes market competition into account and gives a reasonable breakeven / profit time frame before the hardware is superseded or a competitor moves ahead.

    So with bank rolls as large as AMD and NVIDIA its unsurprising to see a loss being made per unit initially to stay competitive and bring the economies of scale into effect with higher volumes. So long as you have cash flow, wise accountants and clever engineers who can make revisions and tweak the manufacturing process to improve the architecture over time you’re going to get your money back while keeping your share holders, directors and partners happy. Meanwhile you continue spewing out the latest and greatest to the baying hungry masses!

    Regardless its personal preference I’ve always bought whichever solution has the performance crown and 80% of the time (in my upgrade path) it’s been Nvidia despite them almost always costing more due to their more ambitious (and sometimes rubbish) development choices the 5 series with 32bit precision anyone? lol

    I’m rambling and my lunch breaks almost over bottom line is who cares, buy what you will, what suits your requirements and your wallet. Where it comes from and how it gets here isn’t important so long as there isn’t a massive monopoly and we all end up getting shafted.
     
  6. LedHed

    LedHed Banned

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    I think they are doing pretty good in the high end market considering they still have the fastest single card in the world. The only way NVIDIA would be in trouble is if the 5870 trampeled the 295, then this would be a different story. But instead the 5870 only wins in 30% of benches (mostly non-SLI/CF apps)

    This leaves NVIDIA with a flagship to progress to the next flagship while ATI just kept in the middle.
     
  7. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Which is why the GTX295 is probably left out of the article. I mean, for $50-70 more the GTX295 does give you better performance. I don't think they were selling many 295's to begin with, so cutting them won't actually save them any money. But as far as the 285/275/260's - who is going to buy these when the ATi cards perform faster for the same money? They are also probably manufacturing a lot more of those iterations as well - so cutting them would save Nvidia a ton of money. Which is why I'm going to say that this article is probably accurate. The thing that annoys me is that Charlie makes it sound like it's doomsday, it isn't really that big of a deal.
     
  8. LedHed

    LedHed Banned

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    You don't think they were selling many 295's but no retailer could keep them in stock for even 24 hrs for the first few months after release. Even review sites couldn't get 2 of them to review. do you remember that Raven 2 Video with 2 GTX 295 and 2 9800GX2 and the announcers says we couldn't get anymore of the 295.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2009
  9. davido6

    davido6 Maha Guru

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    but the money is made in the mid not high end
     
  10. LedHed

    LedHed Banned

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    no one said it was...
     

  11. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    The amount of cards sold to the non-oem market is trivial at best and even in that percentage it's still going to be favorable to a single card mid range solution, then top of the line SLI. Your explanation can just as easily be used to prove that they just didn't produce enough - which is logical, considering the state the market was in during that period.

    And it still doesn't change the fact that probably no one is buying GTX285/75/60's at this point. And if you are, you're making a horrible mistake.
     
  12. LedHed

    LedHed Banned

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    haha a horrible mistake to buy current gen hardware...now that is funny

    OOOO NOOOOEESSS WIF OUT ME GT300 I CANT PLAY CRYSIS @ 3560x2000 w/ 16xAA

    Also I don't know what you mean by "Top of the line SLI" the 295 works exactly like a SLI motherboard by using the NF200 SLI chip to link the GPUs on the 295 instead of the motherboard.
     
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  13. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    It isn't current gen, it's last gen. Why pay $300 for a GTX285, when you can pay $260 for 5850, get better performance and DX11? You can't even argue that the GTX285/260/275's are good buys. Sorry.

    Because it's still a dual chip solution which is automatically going to drive the cost up and drive people away. If you honestly think that more people are buying dual GPU solutions than single GPU solutions you're delusional.
     
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  14. LedHed

    LedHed Banned

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    I don't think the GTX 275 for $210 is bad at all, hell it is literally half of the 295.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121313

    also good luck finding any 5870's or 5850's in stock
     
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  15. LedHed

    LedHed Banned

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    When did I say more people are buying dual GPU solutions than single? I have never said that in my life. If you can read all I said is your "Top of the line SLI" statement is laughable at best because the NF200 SLI Chip is on both variations of SLI, it works exactly the same.

    At least try to follow along if you aren't going to reply coherently on the subject.
     

  16. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Yeah you probably can't find them in stock now, but we're not talking about now, we're talking about over the next couple months while Nvidia readies the GT300. In the mean time AMD is going to be releasing lower end parts that will cripple the sales of Nvidia's mid range. The only thing Nvidia can do is drop the prices on it's cards or pull out all together. Charlie just assumes they are going to pull out and not take a loss. I personally don't know, IMO to me it would be a smarter decision to take a loss and drop prices - least that way you still maintain a higher marketshare. Once GT300 and is actually competitive you can recuperate your losses then.

    http://www.google.com/products?q=ATI+5850&hl=en&aq=f

    There are definitely places that have them in stock.

    You were clearly arguing that Nvidia sold a ton of 295 products because they were out of stock. I was clearly saying that due to the fact that most consumers tend to stay away from SLI of any kind and that because it's their top of the line SLI/Dual GPU board it's expensive, that it's probably not the case that they sold a lot - but that they just didn't develop enough.
     
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  17. LedHed

    LedHed Banned

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    yea you can buy prescription drugs online too, but I don't just send any website my credit card info.

    Hell half of those links on Google say out of stock and the others are a little iffy, I'd say there is a definite shortage of 5850/5870 just like what happened with the 295.
     
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  18. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Rofl - that's it I'm done. I'm not arguing against that.
     
  19. LedHed

    LedHed Banned

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    at least you laughed, it was a joke :D
     
  20. Karl 2

    Karl 2 Ancient Guru

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    That is nothing new, it's actually been an nVidia trademark for years to cease production of their highest-end model as soon as a new generation is out, while ATI tends to simply drop the price on their top model(s) and continue to sell them as long as there is a demand. Many OEM's use slightly outdated ATi cards in their new products for this very reason: most of their commercial customers still prefer faster older cards to newer slower ones prone to compatibility issues.

    Also it's not news that nVidia is in worst financial shape than ATi, that's a years-old situation mainly due to the latter's more conservative management (mostly left untouched by AMD) and willingness to finance retail products with profits generated from their financially sound OEM supply operations, in other words they can sell for less without losing money.

    So, in essence what Demijan is saying is "nVidia pursues same old policy" but then he proceeds to "explain" this with preposterous - and misleading- reasoning. I'm not sure where he's going with this but obviously ATI appreciates it enough to sponsor his site. That's called a conflict of interest, which pretty much kills any credibility.
     
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