NVIDIA keynote and GeForce RTX 40 GPU / DLSS 3.0 announcements

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Sep 20, 2022.

  1. tunejunky

    tunejunky Ancient Guru

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    very true. i'm one of those folks (though "rich" is a relative term and i can assure you that $150k/yr is not rich in Silicon Valley, but that actually underlines your point).
    Americans have a strong dislike for regressive taxation like VAT, but we know it's a factor in EU and other places.

    however, $1.5k is still a lot of money because the cost of living here is the highest in the USA (especially rent/mortgages). most of Silicon Valley is populated by renters with an average rent of $4k, that's right $48K/year for rent when in most of the USA (outside of California) you could have a mortgage on a palatial villa for the same.
    a reality here is the so-called "hacker house", with people sharing every room except the kitchen and bath for sleeping and with cars parked all over the yard. this is the entry level world for programmers/IT specialists and they're still paying a hefty price to live in these conditions.
    and those folks are the ones earning $100-125K.

    $150K allows for a better situation, although it will typically involve a commute from the less expensive bedroom communities across the Bay. above that point, you still aren't "rich", but you can afford to live within a short commute (in the Valley desirable areas are measured by the minutes it takes to go to work.
     
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  2. Valken

    Valken Ancient Guru

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    They said the 30x0 series cannot have it because it is slow, not that the HW does not exist, even on the 3080/Ti/3090/ti?!?!?!

    Seriously? If a 4090 running DLSS3 at 120 FPS @ X resolution, then 3090Ti can do it at 30 FPS so why not offer it?

    Why not allow the 3000 RTX series to run DLSS3 for better QUALITY but those users have to drop resolution to sustain FPS or accept lower FPS than 4000 RTX series, which is the main difference from DLSS2?

    So if a 4050 @ 1/4 of the performance of a 4090 would probably be in the same performance ballpark as a 3080/3090/Ti in terms of DLSS3 performance so why not offer it?!

    They are artificially NOT offering DLSS3 because of "reasons"...
     
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  3. mackintosh

    mackintosh Master Guru

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    The problem with EU pricing is the collapse of the Euro. Nvidia is simply pegging their prices to the greenback. Polish MSRP prices have been calculated straight from the dollar with 23% VAT tacked on. Almost to the cent, if you take the current exchange rate into account.
     
  4. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Few things here.

    A. We have no idea if a 4050 is going to have DLSS3. When turing came out there were low end Turing cards that didn't have RT/DLSS.

    B. They said the performance AND quality of the optical flow accelerator is improved in ADA.

    Even with that upgrade in quality in this video:



    Pause the video at any point when spiderman is running up the wall at 1:33 seconds in. There's artifacting in DLSS3 galore:

    [​IMG]
    DLSS 3.0

    [​IMG]
    No DLSS.

    So even with an upgraded, high quality auto-encoder accelerator, it still is artifacting. Based on what the post said and what we know about image stabilization on an autoencoder (powerpoint presentation that nvidia did on auto-encoders back in 2017) - on a 3K series that artifacting would be significantly worse.

    So again, it could very well just be that DLSS 3 would be dogshit on 3000 series and that's why it's not enabled. Honestly after looking at that video it's arguably bad on a 4K series in it's current state.

    You also have to keep in mind that DLSS3 isn't going to improve input latency of native frame generation over 2/no DLSS. So running a game at 30fps with DLSS 3 on would still feel like an abysmal experience due to latency impact. So potentially older cards with less native performance wouldn't yield an acceptable framerate to make DLSS3 worth enabling in those instances.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2022

  5. mackintosh

    mackintosh Master Guru

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    Honestly, I doubt we will be seeing the lower stack any time soon. Seems to me Nvidia is content to have the 4090/4080 and the fake 4080 with Ampere serving as the - ahem - budget offerings for the time being.
     
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  6. k37chup

    k37chup Member Guru

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    I rather take a gamble with AMD drivers.
     
  7. Ryu5uzaku

    Ryu5uzaku Ancient Guru

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    Tbh luck of the draw when it comes to drivers in general. Tho I am not expecting the RDNA3 to be cheap considering everything.

    Still so far with 6800 XT smooth run here.
     
  8. barbacot

    barbacot Master Guru

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    I think that these "performance numbers" with the DLSS asterisk are kind of a marketing gimmick, I want to see the pure raw performance increase over the last gen without it!
    Since they did not provided these numbers I guess the increase is not that spectacular....we'll see when the first reviews will appear.
    About prices...times when you could buy a top of the line GPU with 500 USD or less are behind us...today I would be content with 1000 USD for top of the line but even that is not the case now.
     
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  9. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Yeah the DLSS performance numbers from the Nvidia released slide are so dumb. You have no idea what game is running what version of DLSS, if it's running DLSS at all. So the comparison is moot. Nvidia is king of being misleading with performance slides.. in some cases just straight up making crap up. Should be fined for it honestly.
     
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  10. loracle

    loracle Master Guru

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    BULLSHIT !!
     

  11. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    i know how much each 8 pin can pull the, i cant image it cause i dont want to deal with that extra heat..... when 200 is already to much
     
  12. user1

    user1 Ancient Guru

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    it is strange , the only reason to give such vastly different products the same name is to confuse the consumer, in the past nvidia has given different models the same name , but there is usually a way to distinguish them by a suffix like ti or se. so yes this is unusual, especially for such a high tier product.

    had they called the upper model a 4080ti then the same thing would have been achieved , without the confusion. it certainly has a big enough increase in sm count to justify the name too.
     
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  13. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    I think the internet should come together to call the 4080 12GB a 4070 and stick it to nvidia. Just have a script that runs on all hardware sites that automatically edits it to say 4070 until everyone just universally agrees it's a 4070.
     
  14. Valken

    Valken Ancient Guru

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    A) IF DLSS3 is ONLY on 4080 (real and fake) up to 4090, Nvidia just killed and divided their markets again.

    B) That is what Nvidia said in the screenshot. It exists on previous gen, but better quality and performance on ADA.

    C) I expect Nvidia to improve the quality with their AI tech over time. It was like how DLSS looked like crap but slowly improved before DLSS2.

    So I expect DLSS3 to eventually look better than DLSS2 or at least not like crap.

    Again, I was talking relative performance at Nvidia quoted better quality.

    It would be a total flustercluck if DLSS3 is reserved for the top end GPUs.

    Imagine the branding:

    4070 / 4060 RTX DLSS2
    4050 GTX "too damn slow for anything else but raster because its a re badged 3060 with no RTX to sell more old crypto 30x0 edition"
     
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  15. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    That would be hilarious! I would love it!
     

  16. barbacot

    barbacot Master Guru

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    Finally found an answer to RTX 4000 series without DLSS - it seems that Nvidia shared some slides after the presentation ended:

     
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  17. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    It's possible it's 4060 and up, Nvidia already did this with Turing so there's a precedent for it.

    The Optical Flow Accelerator exists on previous generations but it's slower and lower quality. As I pointed out even DLSS3 in it's current existence is a little weird on ADA with the upgraded/faster engine. So potentially, on a 3000 series card, it would look like total ass and that's why they felt they needed to segment it. It's possible that even with updates to DLSS3 the 3000 series would never even come close to matching the image quality that we are see now due to those hardware differences. If that's the case (I have no idea if it is but all the evidence/info we have points to it being the case) then I think it's fine that they segmented it.

    Ya it was posted on page 8: https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/n...-3-0-announcements.444655/page-7#post-6052456

    Problem is figuring out what games have DLSS/don't is a pain but the video you linked breaks it down pretty well. Results without DLSS are a little underwhelming.
     
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  18. Spets

    Spets Ancient Guru

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  19. tty8k

    tty8k Master Guru

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    Yes we already mentioned that, check page 8.

    What they presented on the main slides as 2x-4x can be sued as false advertising, in fact also proved by them in the slide with today's games.

    This slide is false advertising:
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Dribble

    Dribble Master Guru

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    I am stuck in a loop of "if I buy I want the latest features so must get latest gen" but then I look at the prices and it's "no way I am spending that much", same every generation. Will stick with the 1070 for a while longer it seems.

    Appreciate the dev work that goes into all these new features, but seems they are aiming at a different market from me these days :(
     

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