Nvidia just made a spatial upscaler availabe for all games through nvcp/gfe

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by cucaulay malkin, Nov 16, 2021.

  1. cucaulay malkin

    cucaulay malkin Ancient Guru

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    Of course not how can a spatial upscaler look better than native
    Its always gonna look worse and have worse aliasing
     
  2. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    I meant on a 1440p display. If I was using 1080p + sharpen before NIS, now I have to drop to 960p. So the comparison here is 960p NIS in new drivers vs 1080p + sharpen in old drivers.
     
  3. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    This is not an issue of niether NIS nor Reshade, that's a result of HUB not knowing what they are doing. (Or maybe they know exactly what they are doing...)
    They have purposefully compared the two this way - even though they could have either wait till there would be engine side NIS implementations or use FSR via Magpie or Lossless Scaling which would produce the same result wrt UI and post.
    This comparison as it is is basically pointless as the only thing which it's showing is why there shouldn't be such comparisons.
     
  4. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    What in the actual f.....

    Having this enabled decreases FPS in all games, regardless of whether you use it or not. What the f nvidia?

    This is "Image Scaling" set to OFF in the NVCP and the game running native res 1440p:

    witcher3_2021_12_27_16_19_36_943.jpg

    This with it enabled and sharpness set to 0% and the game still running native 1440p res:

    witcher3_2021_12_27_16_28_21_777.jpg

    I repeated this at least 5 times, same results.

    Is this a bug? Because if not, then wtf is this? This is a significant performance regression for no reason or benefit whatsoever.
     
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  5. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    Doubt that it is a bug, it's probably used when enabled regardless of set ingame resolution.
    Try to set ingame resolution to 2176 x 1224, my guess is that with 2560 x 1440 in game you end up with higher res than native, hence the performance hit.
    How to Enable NVIDIA Image Scaling | NVIDIA (custhelp.com)
    Also use it pr. game profile instead of globally and disable it on the games profile when you don't want to use it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
  6. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    No. It's exactly 1440p and the NIS logo is blue (meaning it's not active.) If I set a lower resolution in-game, the NIS logo turns yellow (meaning it's active) and I get more FPS than native 1440p.

    So that's not it.

    Not possible. This is an all or nothing global setting only.
     
  7. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    Well, Nvidia should have gone for a NIS engine implementation then, so the comparison is fair enough, although Nvidia has the upper hand with DLSS but sadly that doesn't work with older cards.
     
  8. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    I see, odd that it adds a performance impact then.
    Does it behave the same way when it is enabled/disabled via GFE?
     
  9. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    I don't use GFE.
     
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  10. aufkrawall2

    aufkrawall2 Ancient Guru

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    Seems the performance hit is even much bigger with old GPUs. :D
    Yes, it's baffling how this made it into a driver release (and if course the media once again completely failed in noticing and reporting). Nvidia badly need to scrape it out entirely and redo it from scratch (including sharpen)...
     
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  11. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    Nvidia has provided the source code, and it's not up to them to push it into games - they have a far superior DLSS for that.

    Nope. The comparison is wrong simply because of what they compare.
     
  12. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    Implementation as to compete with a free image scaler as FSR, neither DLSS nor NIS does that.

    Propper in game FSR requires developers to add maps into their game, still less work that implementing propper DLSS, but still far from as good as DLSS v2/3, the nature of FSR won't let it get their either, AMD has to come up with something else.
    NIS doesn't require that at all, so comparing it to ReShade, CAS and other post processed stuff as in the written article is fair enough.

    If you just look at the graphics, not really, it's the same or worse than the other dependant on what is thrown at it.
    In the end is all comes down to the quality of the image that is presented to you, regardless of the method used.
     
  13. aufkrawall2

    aufkrawall2 Ancient Guru

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    NIS is the same as FSR, but with worse sharpen. That's really the whole mystery...
     
  14. Mapson

    Mapson Member Guru

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    https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/rkoqzo/game_ready_driver_49729_faqdiscussion/hq9e2dq/

    Something is very, very wrong with the new scaling and sharpening on Pascal and Maxwell Cards

    Clean Windows 10 Image 21H2 19044.1415

    DDU, game shader caches cleared after each driver install.

    Division 2 built in benchmark runs on DirectX 11.

    497.29 (New Scaling / NIS)
    85,86,86 FPS Native Resolution, No Scaling, No Sharpen
    81,82,82 FPS Native Resolution, Scaling, No Sharpen
    90,91,91 FPS Scaled Resolution 85%, No Sharpen
    90,90,91 FPS Scaled Resolution 85%, 50% Sharpen
    Loss of framerate with native resolution and scaling enabled.


    471.96 (Old Scaling / Sharpening)
    87,88,88 FPS Native Resolution, No Scaling, No Sharpen
    88,88,88 FPS Native Resolution, Scaling, No Sharpen
    102,102,102 FPS Scaled Resolution 85%, No Sharpen
    100,101,101 FPS Scaled Resolution 85%, 50% Sharpen
    No loss of framerate at native resolution with scaling enabled and much better scaled performance when compared to new scaling / NIS.


    471.96 with Lossless Scaling application (like Magpie)
    96,97,96 FPS AMD FSR 85% with default sharpen
    97,98,97 FPS NIS 85% with with default sharpen
    Using a thirdparty application (Lossless Scaling) outperforms 497.29's new scaling / NIS on Pascal and Maxwell cards. Lossless Scaling supports NIS, FSR and other scaling methods.


    TL;DR Pascal and Maxwell owners may be better off with the older scaling and sharpening present in drivers 496.61 and older. Significant loss with new scaling and NIS.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2021
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  15. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    NIS does exactly that.

    What maps?

    No, it's not. If you do a comparison of injected effects then do that. If you're doing a comparison of engine side integrations then do that. Doing a mix of both will result in an improper comparison. Which is what HUB did.

    The quality of the image is a direct result of the method used.
    As I've said, they have compared their approach to enabling these features, little more.
     

  16. TheDigitalJedi

    TheDigitalJedi Ancient Guru

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    I feel it is definitely good to have these options for demanding games. With these insane prices it's hard for many players to get their hands on new hardware. Scalers, DLSS, FSR, NIS and the like are not perfect but with the right tweaks some of us can achieve satisfying results.

    Some games are indeed framerate killers that require powerful hardware while others are poorly optimized. @Krizby shared his Cyberpunk settings with me awhile back and my experience is far more enjoyable. I personally would love to leave my settings in the NCP and ingame at max. Some of the newer titles with large implements of Ray Tracing have other plans. Lol!

    From what I've seen, multiple Microsoft titles like FH4, Gears 5 and Halo have awesome resolution scalers that provide great results. I was disappointed with Forza Horizon 5 due to limited options but I still found a decent visual/performance setting that suits my gaming needs.

    Btw great discussion Gurus. I picked up some tidbits from many of you that will help me and many others.
     
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  17. Valerys

    Valerys Master Guru

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    Is there a way for the NIS option to use 3840x2160 as the base resolution from which it scales instead of the 4096x2160 which is the maximum my monitor supports? It looks off this way.
     
  18. janos666

    janos666 Maha Guru

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    You could try deleting 4096x2160 from the EDID list with CRU but I guess it will be added back automatically by the driver as a TV resolution. But yeah, it's a stupid issue.
     
  19. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    it won't be, this solution works and is permanent until such time as the monitor device is deleted from device manager, it even persists across driver updates.
     
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  20. Lurk

    Lurk Member Guru

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    I did it with CRU, but it was not straightforward AT ALL, at least on my monitor.
    It required a mix of editing a section and deleting an entire configuration block, or else the max resolution supported by my screen would keep coming back and screw with NIS percentages.
    Took me a couple of hours to get it right through trial and error, but in the end I found the right combo which eliminates 3840x2160 (my 21:9 screen is 3440x1440 native) without messing with other parameters.
    On a couple of the games I’m playing NIS is actually proving to be quite effective in achieving higher fps while allowing me to turn up in-game settings.
    I’m not bothered by any significant IQ degradation either.
     

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