NVidia Inspector 1.9.7.6 + FPS limit 59.7 = microstutter

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by 2mg, Aug 31, 2016.

  1. Mda400

    Mda400 Maha Guru

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    Usually why 59.94hz is mostly seen with HDMI and not as much DVI (even though they use the same signaling protocol) is because of the extra color spaces and refresh rates that are associated with HDMI and the material that is associated with 59.94hz (an NTSC standard refresh rate). I've said this before in another thread but it is not necessarily a bad thing that you see an application running at 59.94fps instead of a whole-numbered 60 fps.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2016
  2. BuildeR2

    BuildeR2 Ancient Guru

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    Sounds about right.

    I tried using RTSS at 59 and got a pretty hefty amount of stuttering with or without V-sync. I still use MSIAB and RTSS for the overlay and monitoring, but I've had zero success with RTSS's frame limiter in my case. The only things working for me after a full clean install of Win 10 and 372.70 is either [~]61.8 fps limiter in NVINSP with normal V-sync forced on, or 63 fps frame limiter v2 with adaptive V-sync on. All the games I currently play and test work great with those settings, though some work better with one that the other. Also, I change the pre-rendered frames setting on a game by game basis. Here are some examples of what I'm using to get nearly perfect gaming.

    PCARS = 1620p@ultra, pre-rendered@1, 61.8 limiter through NVINSP, V-sync forced on via NVINSP, 16xAF in NVINSP. This gets me 16.7ms frame times@60fps in 99% of situations along with zero screen tearing or stutters. Zolder at night in the rain with 30+ cars will drop a few frames or have a few stutters, but that is super rare.

    Shadow of Mordor = 1620p@high, pre-rendered@2, 63fps frame limiter v2, adaptive V-sync, 16xAF. Also gets me solid 16.7ms frame times@60fps 99% of the time. Only time I got it to drop was when I got a ton of dudes around an explosive barrel and shot it with an exploding fire arrow.

    Fallout 4 = 1440p@ultra, pre-rendered@1, no frame limiters of any kind, V-sync forced on in NVCP, 16xAF in NVCP. This lets the game run very well, considering the old and trash engine it is using.

    Yeah, after the dozens of hours of testing I've done over the last few weeks I've learned that the 59Hz or 60Hz options in all my games on my TV doesn't really mean anything or make any difference. It is the various types and levels of frame limiting, PRF, V-sync and game engines that make the difference.
     
  3. X7007

    X7007 Ancient Guru

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    Where did my last message go ? I posted one ..
     
  4. Mars73

    Mars73 Member

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    If for every game you need to use different kind of tools with just a little change in settings (limit 60fps for this game, 63 for that game but with another tool) is needed - isn't that just a pain in the ass.
    Especially for the casual user which buys a new computer and a 1060/1070/1080 and just want to play. Of course you can say: then buy a console if you don't want to change settings. But imo it's ridiculus that we need to go through all that hassle just to play stutter/tear/error free.
     

  5. yobooh

    yobooh Master Guru

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    Are you sure that on consoles there isn't tearing?? :D
    To play in a "decent way" use GeforceExperience, it will reduce all your graphic setting and let you play in a stable way.
    But if you want to squeeze your system to the max you have to tweak.
     
  6. Mars73

    Mars73 Member

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    I wouldn't mind using Geforce Experience, but it doesn't support the 3440x1440 resolution. It's giving me (and others which use this resolution) a lower version (2560x1080 I believe).
    And if you put in a custom resolution it doesn't give any recommendation, so it's no use to me.
    Have only used inspector with Witcher 3 and having it frame limit v2 at 60Hz is giving me good results, though using adaptive sync on nvcp is fine as well (only there's the occasional tear, which I don't mind as long as it's not constantly).
     
  7. yobooh

    yobooh Master Guru

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    You play at non a standard resolution in uhd it's obvious to get some troubles...it is beyond what a standard pc player would play.
    Personally in your case i'd try to use Adaptive Vsync half refresh rate if you want absolute zero tearing and stutters, it gives great quality and not so much input lag. Obviously for FPShooter 30fps are not good enough
     
  8. Mars73

    Mars73 Member

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    Hmm why would I use half refresh rate option as for instance I get 70-90 fps with the Battlefield 1 beta at everything max at 3440x1440. Adaptive vsync sets it nicely at 60 with an occasional tear which I can live with. This is with any game I tried.
    It's just that for the best results (without any tearing/stutter) you have to use different tools for different games, one works best with rivatuner, the other with frame limiter v2. Sure if it's set, then you don't have to change it anymore for the game.
    Ah well, I'm just nitpicking I guess. :)
     
  9. Mda400

    Mda400 Maha Guru

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    Console mostly have done what Nvidia's adaptive vsync started doing for pc gaming, a lot earlier. Adaptive vsync (half-refresh) is for example mostly the same kind of vsync method that an xbox 360 uses although its a little different on a console (they turn off vsync when below 15 frames so most of the time you arent seeing tearing).

    But the aspect of a pc is that you have full control over what you do and is a playground for power users. So as a new pc user, best to scour forums for different suggestions is all that can be recommended...
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2016
  10. Orbmu2k

    Orbmu2k Member Guru

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    thanks fo the info Manuel! :)

    ive made a liitle more testing and it seems to happen only if the expected framerate is very very high (>400fps). so for the most real games it actually work as intended except for loading screens and menu stuff.

    ...but i still missing the flat fps (x.000fps) values from R364 in LimiterV2-Maxwell-Mode
     

  11. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    I've had a lot of games that stutter with just Vsync and need the cap in addition to really smooth it out at 60hz

    As far as 59hz being detected, i'd use CRU to see what your RR actually is. Then modify the EDID so the monitor isn't detected as an HDMI one but rather DVI with Audio. You may also want to modify the refresh rate of the resolutions to get closer to 60hz. (I have one of mine set to 59.999hz)

    That fixed a lot of problems for me.


    Here are some other cases
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-the-case-for-30fps-pc-gaming

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-the-best-pc-hardware-for-the-witcher-3
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-frame-rate-vs-frame-pacing

    Also:
    Clamp/Allow doesn't actually do anything anymore for Fermi GPUs onward. It's stated in the RN of every driver. In my testing it does indeed do nothing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2016
  12. VAlbomb

    VAlbomb Member Guru

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    About Negative lod bias, well there is this thing happening.
    http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=575981

    if only we could get some information about this from an Nvidia rep, why did Nvidia decided to abandon(?) never fix this.
    If newer Nvidia GPUs aren't compatible with it do they read any negative lod bias value as 0?

    When enabling Nvidia Control Panel Anisotropic Filtering, Negative LOD Bias gets changed to Clamp by the way.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2016
  13. Mda400

    Mda400 Maha Guru

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    LOD bias is now driver-controlled so it will only calculate a negative LOD and sharpen textures if you are using a form of transparency anti-aliasing. This way applications without LOD bias adjustment can be adjusted for without any user modification.

    Nvidia Inspector has been able to do it manually before they made it driver controlled, but now you just set a transparency AA setting and forget it.
     
  14. aufkrawall2

    aufkrawall2 Ancient Guru

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    This is wrong, application can still control LOD bias.
     
  15. Mda400

    Mda400 Maha Guru

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    Applications that have a lod bias setting can still control lod bias. Where did i state that wasn't the case? We're more talking about functionality (or non-functionality) of the lod bias setting in the NVCP on fermi and later cards.

    Im saying for applications that dont have a lod bias setting and people that dont want run and quit the application over and over to acheive optimal texture quality with transparency AA, the driver now automatically does it for them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016

  16. aufkrawall2

    aufkrawall2 Ancient Guru

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    Not with transparency AA, but with full-scene SGSSAA.
    When SGSSAA is set (or 0x00000008 AA_MODE_REPLAY_MODE_ALL), you can still adjust texture LOD bias manually.
     
  17. X7007

    X7007 Ancient Guru

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    let me start since a lot of games are coming out now, and we had the Vsync issues and the Frame Cap ideas and each game has it's own setting and such. and when we have stuttering or lags in a game, that's like issue same as network issue, the game actually lags and has delay and we feel it interrupting our game play.

    Now since it was driving me crazy to play Bladestorm Nightmare and this game always lagged for no reason, with 970 Gtx and 1080 Gtx, my Dpc Latency is 25 - 50 max on normal and gaming. I did everything I know and read. it's not windows , it's not drivers, it's not programs, it's not overlay or anything else.

    So I started checking why the game lagging with MsiAfterburner which always had 59-61 Fps All the time , so it's not performance issue .

    The game is hardcoded to 60 Fps no matter if vsync enabled or disabled, if you have it disabled then you will have massive tearing.

    So first I wanted to fix the tearing but then I knew the answer is to use Vsync and I thought the Fps cap will fix the stuttering, but nothing did. Pre-rendered frames 1-3 didn't do anything because it happened without Vsync and with Vsync. so to role everything I tested one by one and then tried RTSS and NvidiaInspector Fps limit V1 and V2. The game has Vsync options 0,1,2 0-disabled -1 Enabled 60 Fps -2 Enabled 30 Fps I will always use 0 or 1.

    Let's begin with the tests.

    1. Game Vsync 0 - Nvidia Vsync Off - No FPS cap = Tearing + Stuttering / High FrameTime 100-500 ms

    2. Game Vsync 0 - Nvidia Vsync Off - RTSS Cap 60-61-62 = Tearing + Stuttering / High FrameTime 100-500 ms

    3. Game Vsync 0 - Nvidia Vsync Off - NvidiaInspector V1 61.8 Fps or V2 60-63 = Tearing + Stuttering / High FrameTime 100-500 ms

    4. Game Vsync 1 ( 1st Loading is slow as hell almost 20+ sec the First time, after it loads fast while you still in the game ) - Nvidia Vsync Use 3D App - No Fps Cap = No Tearing + Stuttering / High FrameTime

    5. Game Vsync 1 - Nvidia Vsync Use 3D - Fps Cap Both Application ( each set alone in every test ) = same as 4

    6. Game Vsync 0 - Nvidia Vsync On or Adaptive ( 1st Loading is slow as hell ) - No Fps cap or with fps cap = Tearing + Stuttering / High FrameTime 100-500 ms

    7. Game Vsync 0 - Nvidia Vsync Fast Sync - No Fps cap or with Fps cap = No Tearing + Stuttering / High FrameTime 100-500 ms


    Now the only thing that fixed the issue was disabling Threaded Optimization to OFF instead Auto. the max frametime playing for 5 minute was 39 ms and steady on 16-17 ms. this thing is a game changer.

    All this thread I want you all to test this thing too for games you had stuttering. I still need to find the perfect setting to have no Tearing, I want to use Fast Sync I want to see if it will cause any issue and might FPS cap and see if it will work smoothest it can be.

    And I wonder why Nvidia Vsync On or Adaptive didn't work at all in this game. but Fast Sync did work perfectly.

    I remember I had the same issue with Company of Heroes and I remember disabling this settings fix the issue, it had Force Vsync too unless you disabled it from the shortcut command -vsync off and still it lagged with Threaded Optimization On or Auto.


    Anyone has suggestion or have issues with other games ?

    If game HardCap to 60 Fps but has Tearing without Vsync and Fast Vsync causes Stuttering even with Steady 60 Fps and FrameTime 16-29 ms . It's not possible to use Fast Vsync with 60 Hz monitor ?
     
  18. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    Bad port is a bad port. I loathe Tecmo Koei because they take decent to great games and then butcher them for their PC versions. Time and time again, while still expecting absurd 50-60$ prices with asinine DLC.

    Try playing in FSE, Frame limiter V2 set to 60FPS, Force Vsync from NPI.
    (Try settings the Frame limiter higher as well potentially while still forcing Vsync)
     
  19. yobooh

    yobooh Master Guru

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    The point is: With modern games Threaded Optimization still works? Or is better to have it disabled globally?
    In a lot of games disabling this reduces stutterings.
     
  20. Xtreme512

    Xtreme512 Master Guru

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    is this real? for modern games should we keep it on OFF?

    btw, what about shader cache option?
     

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