Nvidia HDMI Full Range and Limited Toggler Tool

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Penal Stingray, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. LinkDrive

    LinkDrive Ancient Guru

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    Even if what you said is true, you aren't going to be losing any colorspace by converting YCbCr > RGB > YCbCr444. If image quality is lost, then it is because the conversion to RGB caused black crush, not because of the conversion back to YCbCr. Again, the final quality is A) based on your display and B) how your display is calibrated. You can calibrate your display so RGB looks great, even with black crush. On the flip side, you can also calibrate your display so YCbCr looks great, even with two conversions. Further yet, it still boils down to preference. You can't justify "better" or "worse" image quality, because it is a matter of perspective. You can't measure an individual person's preference.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  2. maco07

    maco07 Active Member

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    Sorry, but you are wrong again. Color space conversion presents quality loss. You can easily check it with the pattern that I posted in previous page. If you have your screen correctly calibrated and configured, black crush isn't a issue.

    PC Side: Output RGB 4:4:4 (0-255) nvidia patched or custom resolution
    Monitor/LCD: HDMI Black level normal (0-255)

    You have black crash switching colorspaces cause you don't have properly configured your rig.

    YCbCr don't even support 10bit color.
     
  3. LinkDrive

    LinkDrive Ancient Guru

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    Wrong. Black crush is caused during the conversion to RGB, which causes the deeper than blacks to blend with high contrast areas and lose detail. It has nothing to do with the rig.

    Also wrong. YCbCr442 has a 16bit colorspace, and YCbCr444 makes improvements on the way YCbCr442 is compressed (and I believe it has a higher colordepth, but I could be mistaken on that).
     
  4. NeoandGeo

    NeoandGeo Master Guru

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    I have experimented with both modes on my Panasonic Plasma that supports full RGB and there is not a large perceptible difference between the two when you adjust the settings to look right for each mode. I don't suffer from some of the horror stories I have seen on here with bleeding reds/magentas etc. in limited mode thankfully. I decided to stick with limited so I can use the same input on my TV for the Wii U.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013

  5. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    @Lavans

    FullRGB is still the way to go, even most newer HDMI capable LCD monitors have a option fullRGB, so are you gonna say they're all wrong? Or for example sRGB for adobe, why would they use sRGB then? :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  6. LinkDrive

    LinkDrive Ancient Guru

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    I never said that full RGB isn't the way to go. All I said is that HD content is encoded in YCbCR, so running that with your display set to YCbCr444 should incur no quality loss. I also made the point about there being a difference between the color modes. Please go back and reread my posts so you don't misunderstand what I'm saying.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  7. Sajittarius

    Sajittarius Master Guru

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    Any conversion incurs loss by the very nature of the math involved. The loss may be very small so as to be unnoticeable to most people though.

    A double conversion will have twice the loss, but still might not be noticeable to most people especially if the TV is properly calibrated.
     
  8. LinkDrive

    LinkDrive Ancient Guru

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    Exactly. Proper calibration is the key. I'm glad there's someone else that realizes this. So, thank you for that. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  9. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    The bleeding reds/magentas is there for me, but only on the test card, it isn't something that is blindingly obvious with movies, or even games.

    One thing people should know if they don't already, even if you run this and put the HDMI input into PC mode this will only be valid for 60hz.
    If you have your video player auto change the refresh rate to 24hz then it gets disabled and all the TV picture processing is enabled again.
    Creating a custom resolution of 24.001 should work though.

    There is only one right way, everything else is all personal preference and what we can or can't notice, but tbh I only really care about it with games.
    Depending on the movie i chop and change and have it disabled most of the time as i quite like some of the TV's processing as that is how i calibrated my TV.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  10. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    It only really matters with PC stuff and games, since all movies/videos/broadcast are 4:2:0 anyway.
     

  11. jbrukardt

    jbrukardt New Member

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    Ok, so i want to do the opposite of what most people are in this thread.

    I have terribly crushed blacks, and ultimately what i figured out is that my display only accepts limited color range (16-244). There is no settings in it to expand what it accepts. Long story short, its a cheap 55 inch TV, and im paying the price for that.

    Regardless. What does result in uncrushed blacks, and being able to see the full spectrum (I use this test)

    http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php#blacktest.png

    is resorting to Ycbcr, which results in an image where i can see all the shades, no crushing.

    However, id prefer to be in RGB, but it appears nvidia only sends 0-255 over DVI, which is what im current only.

    I have a DVI-HDMI cable that im using, and cant seem to push 16-244 over it for some reason, and neither of the tools in the thread seem to work

    additional details:

    310.90 drivers
    SLI 460s > DVItoHDMI > 55 inch element TV which will only seemingly accept 16-244

    I have a secondary problem, which I will address if im able to resolve this one coming straight out of the pc. That problem is that id like to pass my hdmi through my receiver, which should be a clean passthrough with no touching of the signal, but it doesnt seem to be.

    Havent tried mini-hdmi to hdmi yet out of the 460s, dont have the cable
     
  12. maco07

    maco07 Active Member

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    What brand and model your tv are?

    I think there is some option on your TV to accept 0-255 colorspace. Look for and option called "HDMI Black Level"
     
  13. Supertribble

    Supertribble Master Guru

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    I have this exact same problem. My tele isn't a cheapo brand but it is on the old side. I have never found a solution to this problem except using a AMD card. There must be a way to modify the driver but I don't have the skillz to do that. It's just infuriating to be honest. If I set the resolution to 720p and set the scaling to be done on the display not the gpu I get proper limited RGB. If I select my native res of 1360x768 I get full RGB and crushed blacks because the driver stubbornly says that's a PC resolution so I'm going to force full RGB on you. Grrr!

    edit

    btw as many will know if you are using a monitor with a native res of 1920x1080 the driver will think that is a television resolution and force limited RGB resulting in a washed out image. Nvidia seriously need a slap for these persistent pixel format problems. Just shocking imo.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2013
  14. jbrukardt

    jbrukardt New Member

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    Believe me, there isnt :/ I even went so far as contacting the manufacturer to see if i could get into a debug menu of some sort to change it.

    Its a Element ELGFT554. Was super super cheap, 450 a a year ago for a 55 incher
     
  15. Redmist

    Redmist New Member

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    Does anyone have an updated method for forcing RGB 0-255 on HDMI displays?

    I'm running Windows 8.1 with the latest WHQL drivers and this tool no longer works (yes, I tried running it as admin and rebooting)

    I tried manual reg edits and inf edits too but nothing works and I'm stuck with 16-235 no matter what.

    It really blows my mind that Nvidia still force every HDMI user to use RGB 16-235 levels when 99% of TVs on the market support RGB 0-255 which is considerably better for desktop use and gaming.
     

  16. Mangix

    Mangix Active Member

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  17. Shadowdane

    Shadowdane Maha Guru

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    I wrote a tool that works on Windows 8 & 8.1

    I'll upload it when I get home from work tonight... I wrote it in VB.Net I'll upload the source too if someone wants to see what it does. It just makes a registry change to a few keys.
     
  18. Sajittarius

    Sajittarius Master Guru

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    By the way... the original post works in 8.1. I still use it whenever i install new drivers.

    I'm at work but ill check which cable im using, pretty sure im using HDMI but it may be displayport (the end on the TV is definitely HDMI though, thats all it has). The TV is a Samsung 55" LED, i forget the model number (2012 model i think).
     
  19. Shadowdane

    Shadowdane Maha Guru

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  20. Prod

    Prod Master Guru

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