Nvidia HDMI Full Range and Limited Toggler Tool

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Penal Stingray, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    What is your source for that claim?
     
  2. Sajittarius

    Sajittarius Master Guru

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    i think he means IPS displays that do 10bit color (per channel, which makes it 30-bit). Quadros enable this by default?
     
  3. Sajittarius

    Sajittarius Master Guru

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    it also depends on the actual input. I have a Samsung TV also, mine has 4 inputs. I had my pc plugged into HDMI2/ARC (it has Audio Return feature for home theatre systems.) and it wasn't working.

    I ended up just now switching to a DVI cable with HDMI adapter and plugging into HDMI1/DVI and combined with renaming the input to PC, everything is working. The Magenta/Red test is clear now as well.

    Samsungs are notorious for extra image processing. I also read in the avsforums that a lot of HDTVs render color in 4:2:0 instead of full 4:4:4 due to the EDID not being read/applied correctly. Using PC input generally fixes this.
     
  4. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    Look. If your Reds and Magentas are blurry you are not getting Full resolution Color. Chroma Subsampling is in place, most likely to 4:2:2 or 4:2:0.

    If using the HDMI/no Audio RGB fix or any other fix does not correct this or a setting on the TV(such as setting label to PC or another setting) then your Panel does not support 4:4:4.

    Which is ****ING ANNOYING that TV manufacturers cut corners like this and still advertise these panels/TVs for PC use. Surprisingly little TVs actually feature 4:4:4 and it's something I requested on the CNET forums that they TEST for in TV reviews because it's so god damn annoying.

    With something like a 10-bit Panel you'd think that 4:4:4 would be a given but it always isnt'.

    Easiest test for 4:4:4 is to use this image and test for Red/Magenta blurriness. These are the first to go with Chroma subsampling

    http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy352/floatpoo/444_faq/tint-blue-rgb-1080p.png

    (Stolen from AVS http://www.avsforum.com/t/1381724/official-4-4-4-chroma-subsampling-thread)
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013

  5. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    RGB and also by video/color? tab full screen video instead of automatic(recommended)


    and by your LCD display full RGB, that's if you have this option.
     
  6. LinkDrive

    LinkDrive Ancient Guru

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    I just use YBvCr444. No need to worry about downloading those tools and rebooting.
     
  7. maco07

    maco07 Active Member

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    Yes, but with a poor-quality result if you use your cumputer for HD content.
     
  8. maco07

    maco07 Active Member

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    Depends on your TV. Some TV don't support full rgb, others support it using label renaming and a specific HDMI input. Another options is using analog RGB DB-15 cable. Try every option.
     
  9. LinkDrive

    LinkDrive Ancient Guru

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    Don't generalize. Not only is what you're saying a myth, but also a matter of preference. What determines the final quality is your screen, what mode it's set to, and how it's calibrated. Also, there are a lot of people who prefer YCbCr444 over RGB because it gives the impression of more vibrancy and brighter mid tones. If one color mode is "worse" than the other, than the likelihood is that your screen is not calibrated for it.

    I personally notice little difference between full RGB or YCbCr444 on any of my 3 screens or HDTV, nor I don't prefer one over the other.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  10. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    It's not a myth, but it is down to personal preference.
    Full Range RGB is much more accurate as there are less conversions involved, which is always a good thing.

    There should be a huge difference on the screen, to the point you should will have to change HDMI black levels afterwards.
     

  11. LinkDrive

    LinkDrive Ancient Guru

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    I really wouldn't call slightly brighter mid tones a "huge difference", because that's about the only difference I see.

    Also
    http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/calibrate-your-system/hdmi-black-levels-xvycc-rgb

    Only way to find out if YCbCr is acceptable is to try it and see. Personally, I'd rather not be tasked of having to download a tool to get something working right that I can barely the difference between anyway (thanks Nvidia). If the drivers already came with full RGB, I would probably end up leaving the color setting on that rather than changing it. Call me a lazy bastard.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  12. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    It was not acceptable for me, if the TV can support it, then i want to use it, ended up looking at AMD cards until this tool came along.

    It's hardly an effort to use, run it once after every new driver install as your likely to reboot then anyway.
    Editing the .inf like i was doing not long ago, now that was was annoying.
     
  13. LinkDrive

    LinkDrive Ancient Guru

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    Is it not acceptable because you can't use full RGB without the tool? Or because you perceive a big difference between the two modes? If the latter, then you probably have your screen configured wildly different from mine, or it could just simply not support YCbCr as well as you think it does.

    Personally, I have enough things to do and a ton of files floating around on my hard drive as it is. I'd rather not have to deal with using the tool, or even changing the color mode, if at all possible. Fortunately, I only need to change the color mode once, and it doesn't require me to download anything extra or require me to run it after a driver install. To me, that is the lesser evil.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  14. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Because there is a big difference between the two, and it's nothing to do with the TV.

    If i'm using a TV as a PC monitor, then i wan't it to act like a PC monitor, and this is the only way to do it on Nvidia cards, you cannot fix it with any amount of calibration, even switching to PC mode on the TV does no good as the driver is already compressing the colours.

    If you can't see the difference them fair enough, but we aren't all that lucky.
     
  15. LinkDrive

    LinkDrive Ancient Guru

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    I said numerous times that I can see the difference in the mid tones, and that I don't really care about it either way. But you're right, not everyone is that lucky, but that doesn't mean that the majority isn't that lucky. You said it yourself, some prefer YCbCr, some prefer RGB, and some can't notice the difference. I'm not advocating one over the other. In fact, I said it myself that I would stick to RGB if the drivers already had full RGB support simply because it doesn't require me to change the modes. But what maco07 said is wrong. Viewing HD content in YCbCr does not incur loss of quality, since HD content (such as BluRay) is already encoded in YCbCr.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013

  16. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Some of the dev's over at Doom9 say otherwise about there being a quality loss, but it's not a black or white issue if you pardon the pun.

    As you said, all personal choice which is nice this exists.
     
  17. Supertribble

    Supertribble Master Guru

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    I would like Nvidia to include a limited RGB option for desktop programs because at the moment I have to use ycbcr444 which I'm not overly fond of. Is there a way to modify the driver to include a PC resolution under the HD television options? If I set the res to 720p I get limited RGB, because the driver thinks that is a television res, but if its set to 1360x768 it sets to full RGB because the driver says that's a PC resolution. Nvidia drivers are not very flexible when it comes to pixel format options.
     
  18. maco07

    maco07 Active Member

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    Absolutely wrong. If you select YCbCr444 on NVIDIA Control Panel, all output from display will be converted from RGB to YCbCr444, because VGA cards work in RGB. So, if you play a video encoded in YCbCr you will have two conversions: YCbCr -> RGB -> YCbCr444. Video Cards don't work in YCbCr natively like a BD Player. YCbCr Output in NVIDIA card is only for compatibility with certain displays.

    Image quality lost it's a fact. It's ok if you prefer it.

    Sorry for my english.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  19. Sajittarius

    Sajittarius Master Guru

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    I used this and it worked to set full RGB for me, it may work for you to do the opposite:

    http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/Video-Tweak/Nvidia-RGB-Full-Limited-Range-Toggler.shtml

    It was originally posted in the avsforums link that someone else posted earlier in this thread.
     
  20. Supertribble

    Supertribble Master Guru

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    Yeah I tried that but sadly it didn't work. :(
     

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