Nvidia GeForce 650m issue

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce' started by Cousland, Aug 27, 2017.

  1. Cousland

    Cousland Member

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    Hello.


    Lately, I have this problem. Whenever I launch Dota2 using my Nvidia card on Directx it freezes my laptop while loading the game's main menu's ui (Dota's ui uses Valve's Panorama Framework). There is slight cursor stutter and then complete freeze and the only option for me is to hard shutdown. First it happened once every 3rd time I launched Dota but it became progressively worse to the point that it now freezes every time. When I was able to get into the game itself it never froze there, only ever in menus. When I run the game on OpenGL it lets me further down into the menu but eventually, it freezes as well. The game works fine on my Integrated HD 4000 gpu.

    I tried to reinstall Dota, reinstall steam, update drivers and roll back to drivers (clean install) from September last year but nothing helped. I've played on this laptop using default DirectX for about 3 years and then using dx11 for another year without any problem until now (this started happening about two weeks ago).


    Other games are working fine, I've tried Fifa 17, CS:GO (CS:GO runs on the similar engine as Dota2 but is not using Panorama for UI) and played a lot of GW2 lately and there was never a problem. All of those games use the Nvidia card, I've checked.
    GPU's temperature seems ok-ish according to TechPowerUp GPU-Z (while playing GW2 and it was around 80 Celsius, 50+- C while idle).


    My Nvidia GPU is most likely faulty as it sometimes has trouble to load up at the startup, few times a week laptop fails to find it (it's not showing in Device Manager) but after reboot, it's there again. Also after those Dota2 freezes, it takes a couple of minutes for the computer to startup. Few times I got BSOD instead of the freeze and it said VIDEO_TDR_FAILURE, nvlddmkm.sys.


    Tried to troubleshoot it on Dota2 official forums and I got this response
    "It's just that DOTA uses 100% your hardware to have faster initial loading times "
    "It does not appear to be anything wrong with the os / software / dota configuration - it's just hardware fault
    [RenderSystem] ERROR! D3D call failed! hr = D3DERR_INVALIDCALL ( m_pD3DDevice->Reset( &m_PresentParameters ) )
    i.e. card being "removed" and not recovering as it should" and then I was told that since it's most likely hardware issue so they can't help me further.

    So I wanted to ask if there is anything I can do? I know that my laptop is old and the GPU is probably faulty, but it still works fine in other games, is there something I can do to work in Dota2 again?


    Thanks for any help.


    My laptop spec
    Dell Inspiron 17R (7720)

    Nvidia Geforce 650m

    Intel HD 4000

    Win10




    So, a little update:

    After I installed the super old drivers (331.65, last one from Dell support site) first chance Windows had it actually automatically updated them to 369.09. They seem to work "the best" so far, Dota2 still freezes in the menu but it doesn't freeze the whole pc, just the game itself, which is at least bit of a progress I guess.

    Another update:

    Now it freezes in every game / program I run on Nvidia card not just Dota2 anymore.
    I tried stress testing GPU in hour-long test in OCCT 4.5.1 and there were no errors. Then I ran the power supply test and it stopped because the temperature on core 1 went over 85. After that I tried to also install OCCT 3.1.0 to test vram but my PC froze trying to launch the program and after that I was unable to open any version of OCCT - I tried to reinstall the 4.5.1 version to run further CPU/Power supply tests but now it says "couldn't initialize system configuration" and stops working.

    To run at least the vram test I downloaded MemtestG80 and run 2048 memory in default 50 passes and it found 0 errors.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  2. cryohellinc

    cryohellinc Master Guru

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    Try to disable steam overlay / game bar.
     
  3. Cousland

    Cousland Member

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    Tried that, didn't help.
     
  4. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    Download snapper driver installer and let it update everything.

    Make sure bios is up to date and you have latest ME firmware for laptop.
     

  5. f14dude

    f14dude Member Guru

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    I don't know if this help or not but since you do use Windows 10, go to your laptop's power settings within Windows 10 and go to Power & Sleep > Additional power settings > Choose what the power buttons do > and UNCHECK Turn on fast startup.

    I had a lot of success with certain software/hardware issue fixed after turning that features off (like WIFI doesn't work...etc). I don't know if that will help but give it a go.
     
  6. Hammie

    Hammie Master Guru

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    Seems like a tangle the dangle with WIndows 10 and your mobile card. Grab the latest nvidia drivers and do a custom / clean install , so it removes the drivers then installs new one. Take out check on 3d vision and hd audio and geforce exerpience... unless you really need these. Then give her a try. If still issues, then RMA the card if possible. gl
     
  7. Cousland

    Cousland Member

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    "Make sure bios is up to date and you have latest ME firmware for laptop."

    I have latest bios (A17) and if ME firmware is "Intel Management Engine Interface Driver" then I have a newer version than is the latest one on my Dell support driver site.

    I don't know if this help or not but since you do use Windows 10, go to your laptop's power settings within Windows 10 and go to Power & Sleep > Additional power settings > Choose what the power buttons do > and UNCHECK Turn on fast startup.

    Tried that, didn't help

    Seems like a tangle the dangle with WIndows 10 and your mobile card. Grab the latest nvidia drivers and do a custom / clean install , so it removes the drivers then installs new one. Take out check on 3d vision and hd audio and geforce exerpience... unless you really need these. Then give her a try. If still issues, then RMA the card if possible. gl

    I downloaded Display Driver Uninstaller and used it each time in safe mode. Then I did a clean install (driver only, without GeForce experience and PhysX) of newest drivers (385.xx), drivers from October 2016 (375.70) and from January 2016 (365.10). Neither worked.

    Than I tried latest drivers from Dell support site for my laptop (331.65) which are kinda weird.
    First of all, they changed Control panel interface after a while by themselves (they have "Video" section which newer driver doesn't have, that section disappeared out of nothing - although It may have been after Win10 update actually).
    Also, they are from 17 Mar 2014 but can be installed on Win10 which I find odd because Win10 wasn't around at that time and I can't force Win7 version of newer drivers to be installed on Win10.
    Another weird thing is, I can't force Dota2 to be played on them. When I use " high performance nvidia processor" as a default option and even in Dota2 program specific section it doesn't work. Dota2 still uses the integrated card so I don't know whether they work or not. Other games can be forced to run on Nvidia card with those drivers using the same method it just doesn't work for Dota2 for some reason (although on newer drivers it forces Dota2 to use Nvidia card just fine)

    Can't RMA, my laptop is 4.5 years old.
     
  8. f14dude

    f14dude Member Guru

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    Also, have you monitored the temps to your cpu/gpu Since you use your laptop to game your cpu/gpu fans must be running a lot. I would check the fans and make sure it is clean because I read that if the laptop's temp is too high, it will throttle down to the Intel gpu instead of the dedicated.
     
  9. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    No there is a firmware in the PCH that controls various things at a hardware level.

    More info here.
    http://www.win-raid.com/t596f39-Intel-Management-Engine-Drivers-Firmware-amp-System-Tools.html

    Also drivers on dell(or any manufacturer) are never up to date on old hardware.

    I strongly suggest downloading the latest snappy driver installer and letting it update everything.
     
  10. Cousland

    Cousland Member

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    GPU:
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    So just a little update:

    After I installed the super old drivers (331.65, last one from Dell support site) first chance Windows had it actually automatically updated them to 369.09. They seem to work "the best" so far, Dota2 still freezes in the menu but it doesn't freeze the whole pc, just the game itself, which is at least bit of a progress I guess.



    "Also, have you monitored the temps to your "cpu/gpu Since you use your laptop to game your cpu/gpu fans must be running a lot. I would check the fans and make sure it is clean because I read that if the laptop's temp is too high, it will throttle down to the Intel gpu instead of the dedicated."

    I checked the GPU temp with TechPowerUp GPU-Z and it's 45-50 Celsius while idle a 80-85 while playing games. I don't know if that's too high, I thought it's okay-ish?

    "No there is a firmware in the PCH that controls various things at a hardware level.

    More info here.
    http://www.win-raid.com/t596f39-Intel-Management-Engine-Drivers-Firmware-amp-System-Tools.html

    Also drivers on dell(or any manufacturer) are never up to date on old hardware.
    I strongly suggest downloading the latest snappy driver installer and letting it update everything."


    Ok, I'll check it out, currently downloading it.
     

  11. Cousland

    Cousland Member

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    Another update. With those drivers installed by Windows (369.09) the game still freezes/crashes but it's not instant though still unplayable. It usually freezes after using menu/in-game parts of the menu for a while (30sec - 2 mins). In Video settings it freezes instantly. The progress is that it's not instantly and lets me browse the game for a while and also that it doesn't freeze the whole laptop and it either crashes itself or I can manually crash the game back to Windows.

    Also, I downloaded the Snappy Driver Installer, installed all of the drivers it recommended (all except the Nvidia drivers because I know the new one behave worse than those that Windows downloaded) with no noticeable changes. The behaviour I described above was happening before I installed those drivers.
    http://imgur.com/a/nWMOh - this is what I installed

    I tried to the ME firmware but I don't know how to find out whether I have Consumer/1.5MB or Corporate/5MB and which series do I have (I guess I have series 7 but I'm not entirely sure). I downloaded ME Analyzer but have no idea how should I use it.

    Also, I couldn't find any safe looking site for Bios drivers apart from official Dell site.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017
  12. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    Download Intel ME System Tools v9.1 r2
    Then open Meinfowin64 in cmd prompt

    Just change directory to meinfo folder and type in the exe.
    Screenshot what it says.
    With that information I can tell you what firmware to update to.

    If it says not supported try System tools 8., above should work though.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Hammie

    Hammie Master Guru

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    Grab the latest nvidia drivers for your card, and when you do a install choose custom / clean installation ... it will remove all traces of nvidia then it will proceed to install new drivers. If this doesn't do it then it can be a faulty card. gl
     
  14. Cousland

    Cousland Member

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    Had to download System tools 8, 9 didn't work.
    This is how it looks like for me http://imgur.com/a/KmIaY
    It said that I had 11.0.5.1189 before so I downloaded v11.0.6.1194 and installed it. After install and reboot, it still says 11.0.5.1189 but I tried to run Dota2 went to Video settings where it was always freezing and no crash/freeze, browsed through the menu for a while and didn't freeze either. I hope that actually fixed it and it stays that way.
    Thank you so much Agent-A01 you're awesome.
     
  15. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    The installer says 11.06 but the included driver is v11.0.5.1189, so you have the latest.

    Your firmware version is very old, 8.04.
    Looks to be a consumer not a corporate firmware.

    It won't let you install corporate onto consumer or vice versa as file sizes are totally different.

    You'll want to update to v8.1.70.1590.
    http://www.mediafire.com/file/c15nzjfu59n3qv5/Intel+ME+Firmware+v8.1.70.1590+(1.5MB).rar

    As I said before, to update, copy the firmware file to fwupdlcl (64bit vs 32bit does not matter just pick one) and rename it to ME.bin.

    With cmd prompt in the same directory(As admin) run
    fwupdlcl -F ME.bin

    Please make sure you don't have any programs open that could possibly interfere with the flash.
    Close everything you can.
     

  16. Cousland

    Cousland Member

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    Another update. Everything was fine for about a week and then the freezes and crashes started happening again, this time even in other games (about once every 20-60 minutes). Either the whole computer freezes or GPU related BSODs occur (mostly Video TDR failure or DPC watchdog violation). I tried to install the 8.1.70.1590 firmware but it didn't seem to help. So, I guess the graphics card is completely dying? Or does anyone have any other ideas that I could try?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  17. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    GPU:
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    Stress test GPU by itself in say OCCT or something. Then run vram error check on it.

    If all is fine, probably another issue.

    Maybe power brick/battery is failing, kinda like a PSU where inadequacy of power or poor quality will cause hard locks or crashes.

    You may try testing CPU and GPU stress test in OCCT for that.

    Lastly, you could try underclocking the GPU from MSI afterburner.

    Actually before that, try forcing fan speed to max.
    Overheating VRMs can cause instability, 85c for GPU is already kinda hot. VRM is usually hotter
     
  18. nhlkoho

    nhlkoho Ancient Guru

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    Have you tried downloading the vulkan patch? I think it's still buggy though
     
  19. Cousland

    Cousland Member

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    Can't use Vulkan as it's stuttering even on high FPS and it just isn't smooth overall. Also since now the problem isn't just in Dota2 it wouldn't help very much.

    The laptop started freezing / BSOD with Driver power state failure error every time I ran any program on the Nvidia card. Once I got the Driver Power state failure BSOD while watching Twitch (I don't think that Twitch streaming actually uses the Nvidia card, at least not according to the notification that shows which programs are using the Nvidia card). I reinstalled the drivers again and it worked fine for about a day and now it freezes/crashes every time again.


    So, I tried stress testing GPU in hour-long test in OCCT 4.5.1 and there were no errors. Then I ran the power supply test and it stopped because the temperature on core 1 went over 85. After that I tried to also install OCCT 3.1.0 to test vram (because that is the last version with vram test according to this article https://www.raymond.cc/blog/having-problems-with-video-card-stress-test-its-memory/) but my PC froze trying to launch the program and after that I was unable to open any version of OCCT - I tried to reinstall the 4.5.1 version to run further CPU/Power supply tests but now it says "couldn't initialize system configuration" and stops working.

    To run at least the vram test I downloaded MemtestG80 and run 2048 memory in default 50 passes and it found 0 errors.

    I don't know how to force fan speed to max. I tried to Google but I don't have the option in Bios as some suggested and various utility programs I've tried didn't work (Speedfan, i8kfangui31). By the way, I opened up the laptop and cleaned dust from the fan, but there wasn't much of it anyway.

    Also, if the problem may have something to do with the power I should mention that I actually had an issue with it in January this year. Suddenly the laptop stopped charging the battery or receiving power at all for that matter (the charger was fine and the cable input thingy too), so I gave it to a local shop for a repair and they fixed it - in the Service protocol it only says "reparation of the power circuit".
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
  20. Cousland

    Cousland Member

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    I managed to find my old system HDD (with win7) that was originally on the laptop before I bought SDD I'm using now. Tested Guild wars 2 and it froze within 10 minutes, twice. So it doesn't seem to be Win10 or driver related which I guess was kind of obvious by now. I also installed OCCT there and ran few quick tests, all of them were 20 mins tests. First I ran power supply test and changed the max temp to 90. I got BSOD during the test (roughly after 10-15 mins) with Driver power state failure. Then I ran GPU test, again changed the max temp to 90, and got BSOD also. After that, I changed the temp back to default 85 and ran both tests again and both completed successfully, though I'm not sure whether that max temp change did any difference since whenever I caught a glimpse of temperatures during the test they were nowhere near 80.
     

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