Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Mar 21, 2014.
I wonder what new features we will see with DirectX 12 besides the low level access.
its about time they do something like this for current hardware...... you would think this wouldve happened with games that require 560Ti and maybe a little bit earlier.... Game Optimization is soo pathetic as it stands... Buggy BS on launch Coughs* bf4 and Ghosts as well as others Coughs* and microstutter on games that run on hardware that is well above and beyond what the game requires to run.....
HOPEFULLY DX12 will make it easier for developers to make titles on multiple platforms quicker and with less bugs and thats able to utilize the very hardware its running on..... no more Microstutter and emulation issues. and less buggy games at launch......
PS i really hope they just get rid of Emulation when porting games.... Hopefully DX12 is the answer to that!
I'm more interested in the dx11 overhead improvements in an upcoming nvidia driver in the next couple weeks I read in another thread.
Kepler will be able to utilize dx12, but partially. Some dude from nvidia already said that DX12 will have a bunch of new features that will require dx12 hardware. I guess the existing hardware will only benefit from the better performance(less overhead), but who knows to what extent. The problem, in my opinion, is that dx12 is too far away in the future, almost 2 years. Volta (Maxell's sucessor) will be around the corner, so i don't see them giving a crap about fermi or even kepler support at this point. People sticking with old vgas for more time, instead of buying new ones, is bad for nvidia after all.
Product support drives a LOT of sales and product support is one area that NVidia is untouchable in. Very few companies support their products nearly as long as NVidia does.
most likely, direct3d 12's overhead reduction will be available to dx11 cards, but the other new features will be new cards only. it's been like this up until now, new hardware is required for new features (think pixel shader, etc).
relatively wrong, its not because officially they said it, they really do it, everyone in the Nvidia forum, including the one with GTX4xx owners can tell you about it.. On the era of the 460-470 i have build many pc for friends with thoses gpu's, and i got the return every day about it...
Marketing is a thing, reality is another thing.... Something fans ( from any side, whatever it is intel, Nvidia, Apple or AMD ) tend to forget so offtly )..
One of the main reason for Nvidia on the past, was just they was reuse any middle gear for entry level the next round ( and i have nothing against that, but when still retap some old architecture 4 years then ( 9000 era ), you need to add them in your support ..
Lol, yeah the 9xxx series was a joke.
Nvidia has better driver support overall. They always have. That isn't even debatable.
I hope with all these improvements (Mantle, Dx12, etc) that all gamers of every level benefit (cheap rigs, old rigs, any brand) as we all would ultimately be better off in the long run when game developers aren't hamstrung with end-user hardware limitations.
if nvidia can get enough dx11 boost over amd cards, mantle would be really pointless.
iirc I read an article recently about the 780ti on dx11 killing the 290x on mantle. and if I remember correctly, the writer specified that this is due to the polished nvidia drivers.
LE: I found the article, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to promote it here.
^ If you have an article about the subject being discussed by all means post the url with the source.
Facts are always allowed. They just have to come from reputable sources when posting links.
here you go:
it covers mantle vs DX11 using a pair of cpus and a pair of gpus: an A10-7850K and a 4770K, as well as the 290x and the 780ti. I found it really interesting that the 780ti is still ahead. and also, what made me veeeery curious is the fact that the A10 with the 780ti D3D performs far better than the A10 with the 290x D3D. This means that amd's D3D implementation is seriously behind, which would probably explain why they developed mantle in the first place. seriously, there seems to be a HUGE performance difference between the 2 setups I just mentioned.
I also stumbled across a gallery comparing a 780ti D3D, a 290x Mantle and a 290x D3D. it SERIOUSLY seemed to me like the draw distance is lower and it's not just a ' fog bug' as it's being considered. if amd seriously did this on purpose it's a really black dot on their history. I remember the ton of crap that was unloaded upon both ati and nvidia back in the day, when they cheated with the quality settings. I don't remember what nvidia cheated with, but I'm pretty sure that ati reduced the antialiasing quality. I seriously hope they both learned from that and it won't happen again.
here's the gallery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/117578384@N07/sets/72157641248149174/
left images are 780ti D3D.
middle images are 290x Mantle.
right images are 290x D3D.
BTW, I just took a deeper look to the Microsoft blog post http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx where they show how Direct3D 12 is multi-threaded not only at the runtime level, but also in the user-mode display driver, and more than that, kernel-mode driver seems to be completely absent in Direct3D 12!
I'd say there such fundamental changes are incompatible with WDDM 1.x (aka Windows Vista Display Driver Model) and would require an entirely new driver model.
PS. Also Nvidia blog post http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/ mentions a "new driver/application model" where the driver does not automatically manage any resources.
Yes it is. Nvidia caused for a while 40% of all crashes on Vista machines due to bad drivers. And on games that I have played I've always had more trouble with Nvidia cards, for instance in Thief 2 in which the sky was not rendered correctly. Nvidia are also generally worse at implementing full directx support.
But when it comes to OpenGL Nvidia certainly kicks AMD's butt.. not that I care as that API is rarely ever used.
Good times are coming, cant wait !
Microsoft prolly had 3 people working on DX12, that way they can say its been worked on for years. Nvidia prolly sent a couple people to help, but instead they been playing DOTA 2 till mantle came around and was like crap we have to work......
^ I love reading all the AMD users comments on this subject.