Nvidia CEO: Radeon VII is lousy and nothing new

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    You're pretty much wasting your time. He seems to believe that ray tracing is the answer to every problem with the gaming industry when in fact it's quite the opposite. It's just another excuse for games to have an excessive number of bugs.
     
  2. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    That literally makes zero sense considering you're not only improving and making lighting and reflections life-like, but you're also decreasing development requirements for games by not having to artificially add fake lighting coming from no (seen) source.

    I'm not saying that there can't be bugs in how a developer introduces ray tracing, but it's 1 thing to get done perfectly, rather then thousands of entries to get done perfectly.

    Again this is just another comment that doesn't even remotely understand what ray tracing is. I'd really like to see what all of you would say to all your favorite CGI films having ray tracing taken away and then tell me how non-important ray tracing is to making everything look and feel realistic and natural. Obviously, ray tracing will not make a game better, gameplay does that, but this is a hardware enthusiast forum, and the amount of pushback from what is the future of games, is astonishing, all because what? It's resource intensive? We already knew that, hence why it wasn't possible before. What has this forum turned into?

    "We want better graphics! At the same required FPS! if it's not the same, we don't want it! Oh, wait, that's not possible? Lets stay in the past forever! Never better graphics!"
     
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  3. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    I understand exactly what ray tracing is. You're the one that implied in previous threads that ray tracing would somehow fix everything that is wrong with the gaming industry.

    I don't play games for "realistic and natural" look and feel. If I want to see "realistic and natural", I turn off my computer, go outside and enjoy actual nature. I play games to get away from "realistic and natural" just like a lot of other gamers. Hell, if BF4 had a mod to make the graphics cartoonish, I'd be the first to download it. If you want "realistic and natural", do what I do....turn off your computer, go outside and enjoy nature. It's the most realistic you can possibly get. It's also better than trying to shove your opinion down the throats of everyone else on the forum. If something thinks ray tracing is a gimmick, that's their opinion and they have every right to it. That does not mean they don't understand what it is. I'm planning to pickup an RTX2060 in the summer. Unless ray tracing is forced on me, it will never be enabled.

    Also, to say that the Radeon VII brought nothing new....is to say that you lack understanding of manufacturing process. The Radeon VII is the first consumer targeted graphics card on 7nm. It's only the third graphics card released using the 7nm process.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
  4. tensai28

    tensai28 Maha Guru

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    Good luck with that. I doubt Nvidia would care in the slightest. I just found a way to cope with the price by selling my 1080ti and I am very much enjoying my 4k performance.
    No one is voting with their wallets. Well some are but plenty are buying these cards so it makes no difference to Nvidia. 1080ti is a pretty poor performer at 4k.
    Why in the world would you expect it to be perfect at first implementation? Litterally no one bought the cards for ray tracing, it's just an added feature. So stop trying to make that as a reason why these cards are bad.

    I am seeing a 45% improvement at 4k on my 2080ti. I am overclocking which most people do anyways. Keep in mind also most aftermarket models come overclocked out of the box offering more performance. You can overclock on top of that factory overclock as well. More than enough to hit 60fps even on demanding titles. Vr saw over a 50% improvement as well. Not sure why you have such an issue with these cards.

    Some of us choose to game on a PC because we appreciate visual quality. That's why high end graphics hardware exists. Nothing wrong with that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
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  5. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Well, sorry. I was nice. Then blunt answer to your old questions:
    Could have question has no appreciation nor loathing from my side. Old Model. Old Model.

    For question in your current quote:
    It does not matter, it would not change anything on way people look at RTX cards.

    And as of that "spewing nonsense". I wanted you to compare gaming cards with gaming. Titan Cards with Titans. And server with servers.
    You are instead using "Last titan being under newest gaming card's performance justifies any price under that titan."

    Good for you: "Current Titan has MSRP of $2499." Repeat your derangement next generation when your approval is RTX card for $1999 just because it outperforms current Titan.

    And if you have speck of brain left. I let you know fundamental difference between old model and new model. Asked you about performance improvement from generation-to-generation at certain price. And what is trend in given model.
    You have not got it, right?

    So:
    Now Model you so defend has exponential increase in price with each generation for top gaming card.
    New model delivered 6% average gaming improvement on $699 MSRP mark and therefore is stagnant.

    In old model, top gaming card price fluctuated (means that it went up and down) and was comparable. But performance always went up by reasonable amount.
    Same goes for lower tiers of GPUs.

    Maybe you can do your homework for once. Make fps/$ chart for last generation of nVidia's GPUs and then add this generation there.
     
  6. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Except raytracing in terms of DX-R is not going for realism. It is not physically based rendering.
    DX-R reflections are just enabling reflections on any surfaces you want. That what is in reflection is no more photorealistic that it would be w/o DX-R.

    Raytracing enables photorealism through calculating primary ray from camera into all surfaces. And pixel, by pixel (screen) throwing dozens to hundreds of rays to find color/emisive property of that area covered by given pixel. (DX-R games are not made to do this.)

    DX-R is not turning games into Pixar's movies. Nor is it turning them into high budget movies which are practically shot in front of green screen and everything is rendered. Often even actors as they are there just for motion capture.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
  7. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Interest has dropped at the news these are reference / non aib products.
     
  8. ManofGod

    ManofGod Ancient Guru

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    Not at all, not sure where you are getting this idea from. This is not your fathers reference card.
     
  9. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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  10. ManofGod

    ManofGod Ancient Guru

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    Photorealism is only really good in Flight Sims. :)
     

  11. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Thing is that DX-R is not even going in that direction. For now, performance impact for having just reflection of same old objects (with same old IQ).

    I want it to be cool. If one has to sacrifice performance, it has to look better.
     
  12. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    No, it's not "amazing". In its current implementation, RTX is nothing more than a tech demo. Like I said, if it completely transformed the game and resulted in massive IQ improvements then it might be worth it, but nobody is going to sacrifice a third/half of their FPS for better reflections (as tensai28 said, he plays with it off and did not consider it a selling point). Ray-tracing may be a game-changer one day, but Turing is definitely not it and you should refrain from trying to hype it up as more than what it is.

    Based on their latest financials, they definitely do. It's not like customers are lining up around the block for these GPUs (not anymore at least) and Nvidia needs every penny they can get. Although mining takes the lions' share of blame for their awful Q4 guidance, it's clear that RTX isn't helping much.

    I would say that most people who want Turing already have one (or they are waiting for a mid-tier card). I see plenty of supply in the market so a boycott can make a real difference. Remember, voting always matters ;)

    Hey, I'm not the one hyping up RTX - I'm arguing against others who are. I see RTX in its current form as a tech demo (at best) or a gimmick (at worst).

    You can overclock the 1080 Ti as well - the relatively difference between the cards is about 30%. Hitting 60 FPS is not my ideal goal (that would be the bare minimum requirement), I want something that can last for several years. It's more than likely that the 2080 Ti will start to fall back when the next generation of games come around and I don't see it being worth $1200 to only play the current crop of games at 4K/60 (especially not for $1200). More than that, I want GPUs that can start pushing well beyond 4K/60 - I have a 1440p/165hz monitor as well and very much like high-FPS gaming.
     
  13. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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  14. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    I feel like you're trolling now and not actually reading it.

    AMD has AIB products ready for release on release date, as the article says.
     
  15. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    AMD's Fury X design was superb. I can't speak for Radeon 7, but AMD has a lot of experience in making power hungry GPUs and adequately extreme VRMs.

    And cooling solution like that looks good. I'll take @tunejunky 's word for noise levels and performance over yours.
    (He kind of has 1st hand experience, you have words devoid of substance.)
     
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  16. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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  17. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    With the same official report from AMD on lack of AIB designs.

     
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  18. Loophole35

    Loophole35 Ancient Guru

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    To be fair that does not mean AIB coolers just that AIB partners can sell the card.
     
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  19. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    I'll give you that, we don't know the extent of it but as far as reference design goes AMD makes some pretty beefy reference designs, they just fall short on the coolers usually. It looks like this card won't suffer from that at least, or we hope so.
     
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  20. Loophole35

    Loophole35 Ancient Guru

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    Yes this design actually looks really nice and premium. Plus all the reports I've seen say its fairly cool and quiet.
     
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