Nvidia CEO: Radeon VII is lousy and nothing new

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. xrodney

    xrodney Master Guru

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    Well, majority of gamers prefer high resolution and high refresh rates over what RTX bring.
    Does RTX improve visuals? Yes...kind off...but at what costs???

    "Who cares if no games are published that does not use Ray tracing as long as an army of creatives finally have a card ( cheaper than volta ) to finally begin working on implementing as much."
    Seriously, retarded comments like this is something that really piss me off.
    Those are gaming cards and as such are primarily targeted for gamers, unlike Titan cards which were always promoted as cards for creators.
    Plus how many creators would use xx60-xx70 cards ? None.

    If Nvidia released cards with at least usual performance uplift there would not be as much anger from gaming community, but as it stands, they forces us to pay double for something that half a year after release still cant be used in more than one game and in which its even mostly pointless due it being fast paces multiplayer shooter where you don't even have time to enjoy better visual quality and where higher FPS is best.

    Anyway I am not spending single penny on RTX until it can manage high resolutions at high FPS (WQHD@120Hz in my case) and for that we will have to wait at least few generations.
     
  2. Size_Mick

    Size_Mick Master Guru

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    Hey, just 2, or maybe 3 or 4 new generations of card from now and it will be totally awesome :)

    I remember Intel threatening to come out with a real-time ray tracing card some years back (like 13?). Apparently it's a lot tougher than they thought it would be :p
     
  3. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    Yep. By the time RTX visuals will be worthwhile vs the performance hit, RTX2xxx cards will be virtually obsolete. People will be on RTX4xxx or newer.
     
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  4. Maddness

    Maddness Ancient Guru

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    Whilst that it's true. Someone had to start theball rolling. And even though i use an AMD GPU i applaude Nvidia for taking the first step.
     

  5. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    Absolutely. I salute RTX owners for paving the road for the rest of us.
     
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  6. BReal85

    BReal85 Master Guru

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    There must be something if he made this rant move.
     
  7. Texter

    Texter Ancient Guru

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    JHH was probably expecting a quad-Navi on a single interposer...o_O
     
  8. slyphnier

    slyphnier Master Guru

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    well CEO or Janitor both same human, its just his bad day ... everyone get moody bad day sometimes no ?

    but if he know how things spread in internet nowdays, he should change few words and the impression can be whole different
    "radeonVII performance is good, but still ours still better and have cutting edge tech"
    or he can simply saying "our RTX still better ;)"

    regarding RTX series, from what i see, the only problem is the price$$$
    if nvidia keep the price range same to previous generation (10**/ti) people wont meme it like now
    high price coupling with new-tech that not ready = what people been arguing now
     
  9. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Well, except that resolute "No" at start I do agree.
    Simple answer is that it will fall down to AMD's implementation. And I do expect radeon 7 to be anywhere between 2080 and 2080Ti in DX-R as it has 34% higher compute power than 2080 and practically matches 2080Ti.

    And as this is written, one should not forget that Vega 64 has some 69% higher compute power than RTX 2070.

    Therefore AMD can deliver few surprises.
     
  10. wsgroves

    wsgroves Member Guru

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    The performance of the 2080, to me, is trash. What is the old saying? "When you point one finger, there are three fingers pointing back to you."
     

  11. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    I don't think compute tells the entire story:

    https://overclock3d.net/gfx/articles/2019/01/09092617337l.png

    2080Ti only has 3% higher FP32 yet half FP16 and performance on 2080Ti is ~30% faster than Titan V (On Ultra).

    We know that RT cores are fixed function units designed for BVH traversal optimization & ray triangle intersect and Nvidia also mentions the split INT32/FP32 pipeline being advantageous for these workloads in it's whitepaper. Like I said it's possible AMD's architecture is inherently better at these things than Nvidia's was prior to Turing but Nvidia clearly optimized for these and pretty much spelled out that they're necessary for DXR performance. The only benchmark we have testing it basically shows that's true to be true.

    Edit: Another datapoint:

    https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/titan_v_vs_3dmark_port_royal_-_rt_cores_matter/1
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  12. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    You also know the saying. "One man trash is another man's treasure".

    2080 performance is second to best.
     
  13. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    so many arm chair ceo's and chip engineers in this thread.
     
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  14. Snajlen

    Snajlen Active Member

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    Even if AMD with Navi might pull out RayTracing , im pretty sure it wont run on BFV. unless devs implement it for AMD Tech aswell.
    RTX sounds like the new PhysX to me. Dead as soon as it was out.
    Only a few games ever implemented it and it never ran that well , only on the Batman Titles.
    Ray Tracing in real time sure is revolutionary , but ill pick 144hz Ultra over RTX barely 60 fps on FullHD.
    FullHD days are kinda over for me.
     
  15. McFly121

    McFly121 Member

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    And when or should I say maybe in some ridiculous dream, I buy Nvidia RTX 2080 for 800-900 bucks my wallet will be broken.HAHAH
    And Radeon VII for 700 bucks is no go.

    I think it is better buy used RX 580 8 gb from mining rig and change termal paste.It wil cost me here in Croatia 230 bucks or 200 euros with original box.
    https://www.njuskalo.hr/graficke-kartice/sapphire-nitro-rx580-8-gb-oglas-27399659
     

  16. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Well yeah the DXR implementation is on devs - so they'd definitely have to plug into AMD's "RTX variant" library in order to get acceleration but they already set the game up to do that. It's the reason why they aren't using tensors for denoise. The RTX gameworks library is just an easy method for devs to quickly integrate it into their games. The better studios/engines will implement DXR and use NVAPI/RTX acceleration to accelerate the workload.

    I think people are confused about how RTX works. RTX is a branding for Nvidia's acceleration of RT in hardware. DXR is what actually creates the BVH instance and creates the framework for ray traversal calculations. DXR can work cross vendor - game dev can implement DXR then accelerate it with either Nvidia or AMD's protocol for acceleration (typically some kind of open/proprietary library) RTX Gameworks is a completely different thing - it's Nvidia only prepackage of DXR effects for gamedevs to quickly implement. BF5 doesn't use this and I doubt most of the bigger games/engines will. It's for smaller studios to quickly integrate DXR tech into their game and have it run easily/effortlessly.

    Hardware PhysX never got off the ground because it was always Nvidia only and CPU physics were always good enough. DXR is different because it's part of DX12, supported by both vendors, will eventually dramatically increase image quality and reduce artist workload. Eventually all games will use it or some form of RT and you won't get the choice between not enabling it so you won't know the performance difference anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
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  17. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    It gives hint. But it does not confirm anything at all except relative performance enabled by nV's driver code paths. Therefore you do not really know how AMD's compute performance translates to DX-R performance till AMD releases driver which enables it.

    nVidia's driver is black box. And we do not have anyone here who can say that those cards use same code paths.
     
  18. Jayp

    Jayp Member Guru

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    You know guys I think it is a fair statement. It seems rude when it is put out there like this but I think it's a real competitive opinion that many could share in the same position. Really the Radeon 7 is boring. The AMD exclusive fans really kill me, complaining about Nvidia all the time acting like AMD is their savior. Well here we are nearly 2 years from the launch of the 1080 Ti and AMD is finally giving us a card that will trade blows and probably win overall at a $700 price point that was already delivered on in March 2017. It doesn't do anything that isn't already being done, so yea it is boring and I agree with that. I don't doubt this will be a good card but it's not doing a whole lot for a price and performance that already exists. Super entertaining to me how AMD fans see the 2080 at $700 and complain for days. Now AMD releases a $700 card and life is good lol. Sure DXR is in its infancy and so is DLSS but these are two techs the Radeon 7 doesn't have and they are the same price cards. Personally, I would like to see a Radeon 7 card with less memory so it could be more affordable. 16 GB of HBM2 VRAM is completely unnecessary. I guess AMD just got tired of following on memory capacity.

    If Radeon 7 was $600 it would be making much greater strides IMO. AMD is doing what they do time and time again, joining Nvidia at given price points. They don't actually slash prices as everyone expects a competitor to do. Nvidia isn't just gouging here comes AMD for a slice too.

    Furthermore, I think the $250 rumors of 1080 level performance might as well be dead in the water now that the $700 7 nm card has been announced and its like 1080 Ti/2080 level or a bit better.
     
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  19. Jayp

    Jayp Member Guru

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    He is probably upset like a parent that AMD isn't helping push boundaries. AMD really does seem to just be playing the safe route here. Nvidia clearly wants to push Ray Tracing and I think they are upset that AMD just wants to get money and not push anything actually new to the market. Honestly, at $700 RTX 2080 already seems very competitive after this taste of Radeon 7 said to be $699. Let's not forget the Freesync argument just left AMDs side so for $700 you get a card that probably will out perform the 2080 in vulkan benchmarks and maybe some other async DX12 stuff but doesn't give anything more. At least on a 2080 you can have similar performance and ray tracing tech whether you want it or not for the same price.

    I think the new Radeon will be a solid performer but admittedly it's not very exciting. RTX didn't excite me all that much but this Radeon 7 stuff is super boring because there is no new tech that is justifying why this card sits at this price/performance.
     
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  20. Jayp

    Jayp Member Guru

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    So it's better than AMD joins them at $700 lol. Bought my 1080 Ti in beginning of 2017 and now AMD has a competitor to it. This $700 performance mark is getting stale and AMD isn't doing much of anything to change it. Looks like I will be keeping my 1080 Ti for at least another couple of years. The GPU market has really made the life of Pascal cards long guess I can't hate that.
     
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