NVidia Anti-Aliasing Guide (updated)

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Cyberdyne, Jan 29, 2012.

  1. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    No. If you're talking about Sparse Grid SSAA then yes, in titles which support MSAA and work with SSAA. This whole thread is about such titles.

    TXAA is implemented in applications, there is no way of forcing it outside of games which provide direct option of using it.
     
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  2. AATT

    AATT Member Guru

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    ok thx

    and what is about TAA and TXAA, is it the same, is TAA just temporal aa and txaa the new(er) nvidia hybrid one?
     
  3. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    TAA is Temporal AA in general. Since it's pure software it can has unlimited number of specific implementations in practice.
    TXAA is NV's extension of MSAA with additional custom resolve filters. It's not really clear if there's even a temporal component in TXAA (at least I haven't seen anything which would confirm this) or if it's just >1 pixel resolve filter like that used in Quincunx and AMD's CFAA previously.
     
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  4. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    There is a temporal component in the latest TXAA AFIK.
    The TXAA 3.0 sdk is free to download and has descriptions of how it works.
    There are options for temporal supersampling, reprojection, flicker filters,etc.

    Which has the same issues as most other Temporal methods with over attenuating the image in motion, poor resolve of some detail in motion,etc.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018

  5. AATT

    AATT Member Guru

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    with the ss element it is called TSSAA and TMAA?!

    isnt that overkill with the ssaa element ( i guess used for fences etc.), shouldnt the temporal element do just that remove the ill looking stuff when in motion which afaik is stuff like fences etc.?

    anyway i think thats the way to go, at max using the ss on such parts if needed
    on pes 2018 prior match with the cam flying over the stadium the in-game TAA looks stable as fu and very sharp too (in 4k)

    also what i found in bf4 some stuff needs post process aa to get removed like when running sideways towards wooden doors that have pattern on them, even going down from native 4k to "2k" then using the res. scale slider ingame to 150% AND msaa, that visual ill effect is still there, switching the fxaa on fixes it
     
  6. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    You can never have enough things trying to tackle aliasing. A hybrid AA solution is often the best solution. (Multiple methods, any combination of MSAA, SGSSSAA,FXAA,TAA,OGSSAA)
    The problem is often there is too little done by developers (or too cheaply or too lazily. The recent trend of "resolution scale" is the very lazy side of things) and most TAA methods by themselves, no matter how much they are doing. Are not enough.
    They often bring about introducing a lot more artifacts than they help fix. (With many exceptions).


    Then there are some games that almost nothing will fix completely everything, even when you go completely overkill. (Resident Evil VII for example. The specular component is so harsh , and the TAA will often fail to completely resolve it in motion that not even TAA+FXAA+9xSSAA will completely fix it. However it's something most people will never notice. And you don't need much to get the game looking near perfect. TAA+FXAA+2.25xSSAA+Some sharpening. Is a good sweet spot. Make sure to disable reflections or just use variable reflections. As the quality is poor and adds a huge amount of aliasing to the game)
     
  7. Terepin

    Terepin Master Guru

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    If I use 2x2 SSAA + 4x MSAA, how many transparency supersampling I have to use?
     
  8. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    You don't have to use anything. Try it for yourself and see if it's good enough for you.

    Generally, 2x2+4x will give you 2x2 supersampling for transparent surfaces and this is enough for most people.
     
  9. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    Yeah. If you noticealpha test objects are still a problem then try adding 2xTrSSAA.
    If shader/specular aliasing is a big problem still, a better solution is to use 2x2 DSR+SGSSAA instead. As the driver resolve for using 2x2+SGSSAA tends to leave too much aliasing behind in most cases.
     
  10. BuildeR2

    BuildeR2 Ancient Guru

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    Hey all. I just started playing Titan Quest Anniversary Edition with a friend and the AA and AO settings are no longer working. The last time I played the game I was on Windows 10 1709 with driver version 391.65 and it worked perfectly. Now that I'm on Windows 1803 the game menus just flicker a bunch and no AA is applied. I tried using DSR to play in 4k and higher but then the game has all kinds of UI issues no matter what in game UI size I choose, so using my native 1080p with 8xAA via NPI was ideal.

    Does anybody have any ideas or things I can try to get it working again? In the last few hours I've tried going back to several older drivers (378.92, 382.53, 385.69 and 387.92) and they all do the same thing, which makes me think it may have been going from 1709->1803 that broke some older games. If anybody could test it out with the settings in the AA guide and let me know what happens for them that would be awesome.

    EDIT - After several hours of testing, I've got it working again. I'm on the most recent Windows 10 (17134.48) and a clean install of driver version 397.64. First off, the main change comes from the fact that it always used to work fine using NPI "override the application setting" for AA and turning off AA in game. For whatever reason (game update, Windows changes, driver changes) I have to turn on the in game AA and tell NPI to enhance it. I'm pretty sure the AO is back to working now that there aren't other conflicts between the game engine and NPI settings regarding AA.

    I also had to have steam verify the game files before AA and AO settings were working again, even though I haven't touched or modded the game at all and it said no files were replaced.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2018

  11. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    Titan Quest AE should be working just fine unless somehow a Windows update could possibly break it. I'll try testing it again. But i'm on W7 still so that might be an issue.
     
  12. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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  13. BuildeR2

    BuildeR2 Ancient Guru

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    It does still work. I didn't want to double post so I edited my earlier post. I'll make the edit more obvious.
     
  14. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    Well all it's doing with Enhance is augmenting the in game solution> So no it's not really working still then is it?

    Very strange. I don't have a Win 10 build I can test this with sorry. Hopefully someone else sees this and tries it who cant.
     
  15. AATT

    AATT Member Guru

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    any advice on dsr settings on 4k monitor, its for rs2 an ue3 game with only fxaa as an in-game option

    going by the x1.25/1.5/2.0 etc. its either not available or too high, so is the odd x1.78 a good factor which would result in 5120x2880 aka 5k?

    i read about pixelcrawling n stuff but its confusing, then there is the smoothing too

    i guess 1.78 would appear smoother as for example 2.0, would lowering the smoothing help with that?!
     

  16. Martigen

    Martigen Master Guru

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    At 4k native you're probably better off using Reshade and applying high-quality FXAA or SMAA to smooth jaggies.

    DSR is great, but anything less than 4X is going to introduce artifacts (since the pixels can't be evenly multiplied). This is why the smoothing setting exists, to try and cover these up, but it's terrible. I only use DSR when I can 4X, and set smoothing to 0%.

    But as you're noting, at 4K native going 4X is going to crush whatever GPU(s) you have. So, stick with native and apply SMAA via Reshade.

    My 2c.
     
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  17. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Modern games can be a real pain due to shaders (Reflections for one.) and specular highlights (Physical based lighting can have a lot of this.) introducing aliasing which FXAA and SMAA are only partially effective against, 4x DSR or double the width and height helps but even that doesn't completely eliminate aliasing (Modding it to higher values is also going to really hamper framerate although 1920x1080 -> 3840x2160 is already really demanding as is.)

    Leaving temporal AA but that's going to be a problem getting it as a injectable shader via e.g ReShade even if some attempts have been done and are currently being looked into and game implementations vary in effectiveness and also importantly blurriness and jittering.
    (Early SMAA T2X had a issue with crawling and ghosting too if framerate dropped to a low value.)

    So now geometry and transparency is handled nicely but add the really popular but also really error prone screen space reflection technique and aliasing is back and that's just one effect of several.
    (Alien Isolation has this lovely and completely impossible barrel distortion effect as I recall, even gave 4x4 downsampling problems until a temporal anti-aliasing technique got modded in a while back.)


    EDIT: Though Rising Storm 2 on UE3 as I remember isn't too heavily customized so it might be easier to get rid of aliasing. (A low amount of smoothing to not blur the image when using a non-even scaling multiplier could help.)

    I think I got the game right, there's a stand alone Vietnam version too which is probably a bit newer and might have some additions in the engine but probably nothing too difficult to deal with far as aliasing is concerned.
    (Vegetation is going to be a issue performance wise though, possibly.)
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  18. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    I'm sorry what? The pixels can't be evenly multiplied? This isn't integer scaling a 240p NES game. It doesn't work the way you think it does to reduce aliasing and despite the final resolution rounding with imperfect aspect ratio matches. It will not introduce any artifacts what so ever.
    The whole point of the resolve filter is how to determine how to average input to output and how that final output looks. Having an odd number of input pixels vs output that don't divide evenly isn't going to introduce artifacts like trying to nearest neighbor upsample one resolution to another without whole numbers where you end up with shimmering and unevenly shaped pixels.

    If you are that picky about having clean numbers with DSR you can easily edit the registry to give you finer control (1.7x1.7 or 3.5x3.5 for example), or you can ALSO use 2.25x DSR which results in a perfect 1:1 aspect ratio match and is 1.5x1.5 each axis.

    I've done several A/B test with the same scene downsampling one of the rounded resolutions vs a resolution without rounding and there is zero artifacts introduced into the mix that don't already exist in the original output to begin with. (When using non 0% smoothness.)


    Oversampling without whole numbers =/= Upsampling without whole numbers.
    Of course unless you are downsampling with a nearest neighbor resolve or 0% smoothness (or close to it), in that case what's the point of downsampling in the first place? Of course that is going to introduce artifacts, it's basically point sampling.
    You are just throwing away that performance meant to reduce aliasing to simply add aliasing back into the image with 0% smoothness. 0% smoothness looks hilariously bad the higher the resolution you use. (Trying using it over 4x DSR).
    And here's a rough example of 4x pixels in vs 1 pixel out with integer downsampling (Close to 0% smoothness) and a proper resolve filter bicubic.
    The image seems so much sharper with integer downsampling, but that's literally all aliasing that you have introduced into the image by using this setup.
    http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/114490



    OP: Unless you have a lot of performance to spare, I would just use whatever the game ships with. If you do, use whatever the game came with and use as high a DSR resolution as you can without losing the performance level you want. The only problem you are going to run into with using DSR options other than 2.25x and 4x (They all involve rounding up to get the resolution value), is if the game is very picky about aspect ratios or it doesn't support arbitrary resolutions. (Lot of Capcom games)
    And don't use 0% sharpness. If you love games being as sharp as possible. Just sharpen the image after using a higher smoothness value. Reshade has a lot of good sharpening options these days that can recover a decent amount of high frequency information without emphasizing and introducing aliasing back into the image. (When used reasonably)
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
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  19. AATT

    AATT Member Guru

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    aliasing per se is not the dealbreaker here on 4k, i dont notice it that much, its just that some lines on rooftops etc. sort of "move" by themselves even when standing still on native 4k and nothing else, if going dsr to 5k its gone, only slightly appears again when moving, but fps drop to high 50s like that if shooting and moving the turret like crazy on the shooting range xD so i think dsr is not an option, i looked to the AA master list and rs2 is there but only with dsr note so i guess the only thing left is the injecting, i had reshade once and found that to be a bit complicated to set up, and smaa wont get rid of the stuff i mentioned anyway i guess?!

    the in-game fxaa does nothing at all, i cant notice any blur or positive effects whatsoever lol, maybe broken

    ps but still its way more stable and clear picture than bf4 here, so in that sense ue3>frostbite (comparing to 4k+150%res. scale +fxaa high that is xD)
    injecting temporal aa with ss bits would be awsome and the end of all aliasing pain

    #2
    reduced some settings, fps are fine now with dsr, visually about the same
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  20. Terepin

    Terepin Master Guru

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    I just wish to see more of SMAA T2x and especially SMAA 4x. I don't know why no one is using that one.
     

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