NVidia Anti-Aliasing Guide (updated)

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Cyberdyne, Jan 29, 2012.

  1. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    Becuase MSAA is cool and "Real AA" don't you know?

    Why need anything more than compromised Geometry AA?

    >_>

    Deus Ex though. Looks like the pre-AA input has some kind of heavy sharpening pass on it however.(Or unsharpen mask?)_ Probably doesn't help.

    At least it doesn't look as bad as the sharpening that was added to UE4 TAA in the last year. Which solves none of it's problems and actually makes some aliasing more apparent. Also makes certain parts of the image really "blotchy" looking like Doom's sharpening. I thought it was the TAA at first, but the effect disappeared completely with sharpening disabled in Doom.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2016
  2. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    It's good to have options. It may actually become usable on future h/w. TAA in DXMD is good but it still soften the image a bit too much.

    You can disable sharpening in the settings. In fact it's so bad in DXMD that everyone should just do that.
     
  3. jiminycricket

    jiminycricket Master Guru

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    If you disable sharpening, then TAA needs to be disabled too otherwise it's too blurry.
     
  4. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Too blurry is something that will change from person to person.

    These new sharpening options are aimed at console gamers, they don't have the luxury of injectors and mostly sit far away from the screen so are less likely to see how bad the ingame sharpening is.

    As useless as MSAA is these days, it's still nice to have the choice.
     

  5. jiminycricket

    jiminycricket Master Guru

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    If you thought FXAA was blurry, DX:MD TAA is worse.
     
  6. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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  7. jiminycricket

    jiminycricket Master Guru

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    Maybe for you, but my vision is augmented.
     
  8. Witcher29

    Witcher29 Maha Guru

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    I agree without sharpening MD looks dull and blurry, like its in a low resolution.
     
  9. GuruKnight

    GuruKnight Master Guru

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  10. jiminycricket

    jiminycricket Master Guru

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    TAA + sharpening/LumaSharpen is best AA solution for DX:MD IMO.
     

  11. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    Is there not an option to simply dial it down?

    Homefront The Revolution has pretty great TAA even without the sharpening, but the sharpening is very well balanced even at it's default 60/100 setting.

    Eurogamer mentioned it seemed to add a ghost trail to moving images. But I wasn't able to capture any significant ghosting with it on and motion blur off.

    I was actually really impressed with the TAA in that game. Especially with some SSAA added to it. The SMAA T2x option didn't seem to work when i tried the game with the free weekend.

    Unlike UE4 TAA which has a ton of artifacts.
    That looks pretty good actually. Still plenty of high frequency information left over without over averaging it. Could use a light sharpening. But nothing close to what seems to be used by default.

    Sharper =/= automatically better all the time.
    It all depends on how aliased the raw output and the assets actually are.
    If it's a high amount, it just gives the false impression of real detail thanks to all of the high frequency information present that is actually artifacts from undersampling.

    There needs to be a balance of resolving actual detail and preserving what high frequency information that should actually be present without creating further artifacts.


    There a lot of great examples where the raw output from a game or engine is insanely aliased that create a false impression of detail.
    From the screenshots i've seen Deus Ex is definitely not one of those games. Nor is the TAA aggressively too soft. (UE4's TAA before they added the sharpening takes the cake for that. The TAA used in FFXV's Platinum Demo is another example as well.)

    https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8460/29134012361_bfb48d1f3a_o.jpg
    What might make this image look better to you, is to actually use a slight bit of downsampling with a custom resolution or using DSR with a lower smoothness factor. (Like 20% or lower) with the in game sharpening disabled. This should bring back a bit more sharpness without aggressively adding any additional artifacts.

    Give it a shot and experiment. You might get more well rounded results than the in game sharpening.
    If we could get proper SGSSAA in this game. It would probably look a lot better than the TAA and not need sharpening.
    I'd love to see a screenshot of what you think looks best here.

    I have a pre conceived idea of what it might look like.:nerd:
     
  12. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    He did say he had vision issues though.

    I've managed to get past the snobby idea that sharpening a blurred image is two wrongs, but the sharpening has to be very subtle and more realistic than sharp.

    It annoys me that pictures taken on my phone are sharper than what i see.
     
  13. jiminycricket

    jiminycricket Master Guru

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    Nope, sharpening is only a simple toggle in DX:MD (off on). That's where LumaSharpen comes in.

    Downsampling? ROFL. You have no idea how this game runs, do you?

     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
  14. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    No, it's and on/off switch for sharpening in DXMD.

    This is how the game look without sharpening, everything else is default. The sharpening in DXMD is pretty awful.
     
  15. GuruKnight

    GuruKnight Master Guru

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    Probably yes, but it is still a "compromise" which bothers me :)
    Only 4K + TAA will be sufficient to fully "offset" the blurring from the AA method itself.
    Hence the overall need for better AA solutions.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016

  16. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    In some form of irony, forced AA using the bits for the original release of Bioshock seem to work better in Bioshock Remastered.

    *As does the HBAO+ flag

    But in the process it breaks some rendering effects. Which is a shame because it looks pretty good otherwise.

    Even MSAA works and looks decent.

    In game however seems like they replaced MSAA with FXAA as well.

    New textures in general look really nice aside from the hugely toned down specular component and low res ones left. (Specular maps are still fairly rough)

    http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184640
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2016
  17. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    It doesn't have to be a *lot* of downsampling. You can still gain some benefits even with a small amount. Never said use a lot of downsampling.

    Just a bit with a very low smoothness setting will sharpen it a bit for you.
     
  18. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    They never supported any AA actually.
     
  19. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    Oh, you know what you are right. For whatever reason I thought the original supported MSAA. Installed it to compare and it doesn't. So that's that lol
     
  20. jiminycricket

    jiminycricket Master Guru

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    I have a 144Hz monitor. Dropping below 90 FPS is unacceptable to me. A 980 Ti at 1080p High/Very High just barely scrapes by in Prague hub. There is no performance headroom for any downsampling, period.
     

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