NVidia Anti-Aliasing Guide (updated)

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Cyberdyne, Jan 29, 2012.

  1. whitespider

    whitespider Member Guru

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    Get 2x msaa on watch dogs (or any game that uses txaa) and then force FXAA on it via either sweetfx, or nividia inspector. The combination of 2x MSAA and fxaa won't be even a fraction of the quality of TXAA 2x. Same goes for 4x MSAA + fxaa vs TXAA 4x.

    Txaa almost eliminates temporal aliasing, whereas fxaa and msaa in direct x 11 barely touch it. The shaders that txaa uses are very different, and the whole thing is designed to work as a multi-pass system.

    It's like saying that HBAO+ and SSAO are the same because they are both technically ambient occlusion. Whereas they are very different and "think" in very different ways. For me the look of what TXAA achieves is closer to sparse grid supersampling 8x in direct x 9. Better than that even. MSAA and fxaa do complement eachother, however they are WAY different to TXAA in antialiasing functionality, have a look at the shaders if they ever release the code, i am willing to bet there is very little in common with smaa/fxaa for the post processing part of TXAA.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2014
  2. pedigrew

    pedigrew Master Guru

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    tnx for the hints bonk :D
    but unfortunately it didn't worked, tested with aa fix on/off, even with different flags and no good results
    ill keep using gedo then, the only problem is that my gtx770 cant handle 4k with AO @60fps :/
     
  3. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    I haven't tried it. But given that GeDoSaTo is still involved, I doubt it will work. But I may give it a shot anyway.

    DSFix worked when it came to this, but DSFix isn't GeDoSaTo.

    [​IMG]

    This couldn't be farther from the truth.

    I've talked about this before, but TXAA is not even REMOTELY like FXAA+MSAA.

    MSAA+FXAA without downsampling is pretty horrible. As FXAA like SMAA, sometimes using these together will actually end up reverse anti aliasing some elements depending on the game

    And since FXAA is simply edge detection and smoothing, this does not effect temporal aliasing of any kind what so ever.


    The blurring in TXAA is not because of some pass that just decides to blur it. TXAA uses a different resolve filter than the standard box filter used by GPU hardware. A custom resolve is also as it implies. Custom, meaning that the resolve filter has been tweaked according to the intentions of the technique. To reduce as much temporal aliasing as possible.

    You can see an article on such a thing here
    http://mynameismjp.**************/2012/10/28/msaa-resolve-filters/

    There is even a demo you can download and experiment and see how different filters impact things.

    And as you will see, some of them average out the image, making it softer.



    Need proper post with comparisons (Lossless PNGs please) and some formatting for ease of visibility for readers please
     
  4. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    I might've just solved the entire GeDoSaTo-Driver Forced Anything problem..

    If my testing proves accurate

    [​IMG]

    And if you prefer something sharper...
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014

  5. balthier

    balthier Member

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    Please tell us how to do it MrBonk
     
  6. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    Oh I most certainly will!

    I need to do more comprehensive testing, and talk to durante about a scaling thing to keep in mind in the future.


    Once I am done, I will make a fairly large post trying to explain everything and the options you all have as users.
     
  7. spider

    spider Master Guru

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    This mean while FXAA is edge detection and smoothing TXAA is in the post processing part simply smoothing but instead of using an box kernel its using a custom kernel?
     
  8. KoKlusz

    KoKlusz Active Member

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    Great work!
     
  9. tapioks

    tapioks Active Member

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    Playing on a laptop with a GTX 780M, o/c to 950MHz core and 6000MHz memory
    GoDoSaTo downsampling from 1440p to 1080p with:
    - 4xMSAA and Alpha Coverage
    - Shadow Scale 4
    - Present Interval=0
    Borderless Fullscreen Mode
    nVidia Inspector:
    - 16x Aniso
    - Force VSYNC (though probably has no effect in borderless fullscreen?)
    D3DOverrider to force Triple Buffering (again, maybe just placebo effect in borderless fullscreen)
    Runs at a SOLID 60FPS with occasional dip to 55 on loads/transitions
    The game is beautiful :)

    Quick Links to Fullsize Images:
    http://i.imgur.com/tZIjzc9.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/ini46Se.jpg

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2014
  10. whitespider

    whitespider Member Guru

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    Ryse has some great post antialiasing, and this is coming from someone very fussy when it comes to post aa. I'd say it looks better @ native @ 2560x1440 with post aa, than 5k (that's right, 5k) without post AA.

    The game has the following options:
    Upscaling, Supersampling, Downsampling, Post AA.

    I would actually call this post AA near-txaa level. FAR better than dead rising 3 and alien isolation attempts, and with only 10% the performance hit of TXAA and 2% of downsampling/SSAA.

    NOT BAD.

    By the way are those final fantasy screenshots kind of dark, I find the background hard to make out. Maybe i just have dim vision.
     

  11. tapioks

    tapioks Active Member

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    RE: Dark FFXIII screens

    Those particular scenes are dark due to the locations, but the lighting in the game is not modified. Scenes that should be bright certainly are ;)

    I'm still in a fairly dark area, but maybe these look better?

    Direct Links
    http://i.imgur.com/DVvW5jS.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/YOwOFcf.jpg


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2014
  12. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    Wow, really? That sounds great, because SMAA T2x in every game i've seen it in (Even the original Crysis 2 example when they created the technique) looked utterly mediocre
     
  13. frankgom

    frankgom Member

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    I agree, Ryse son of Rome shows the best quality post effect AA ever? great quality
    now we only need a good sli profile

    Edit: now if Crytek would like to share his nice post AA with the rest of developers...
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2014
  14. whitespider

    whitespider Member Guru

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    Well maybe you might disagree then, because I liked it's useage in crysis 2. This is clearly better, but it's cut from the same cloth. It does wonders for edge aa and makes round/soft things almost shimmer free. Creates a soft look without making the textures very blurry or some glaring compromise.

    Oh, and it scales up with resolution/down-sampling wonderfully. Kind of makes the whole DSR thing something fun to experiment with at 7fps.

    Yeah, if alien isolation had that post aa, nobody would even be considering expensive downsampling. Same goes for dead rising 3. This is the best smaa tx2 i've ever seen, and it should be the standard for post aa. What puzzles me about it is that it also takes wonderful care of the edges, so 98% less temporal shimmer and 90% less edge aa.

    Things like dead rising 3 with it's tx2 implementation added additional shimmer, this on the other hand removes pretty much everything. I mean, sure, txaa removes even more, but this is a damn fine attempt.

    Kind of brown and dark for me. Lacking vibrancy and has this yellowy green blackness. But it's better when i fullscreen it, although still kind of dark/brown/poo looking.


    --------------
    Separate note
    --------------

    Ryse has a HBAO+ flag. I tested it and set it to "quality" via nvidia inspector, and it improves the visuals even more. However I really have to wonder if the game was already using some kind of SSAO/HDAO.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2014
  15. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    Oh, no the stuff used in Crysis 2 retail was pretty ok!

    I'm talking about this
    http://www.iryoku.com/smaa/downloads/SMAA-Enhanced-Subpixel-Morphological-Antialiasing.mp4


    Dead Rising 3's SMAA T2x is pretty bad. It somehow manages to completely miss stuff that even FXAA and SMAA 1x Gets



    As far as Ryse is concerned, the game has more than just the post-AA (Which is an updated SMAA T1x from the XBO version), it also has AA at the material and shading level to help reduce problems.

    From what I recall, if you turn the postAA off, and then change the graphic setting from the max to the lowest, it will deactivate some of that


    ALSO: Ryse *does* have SSDO and some other forms of AO.

    If you look for slideshows and presentations from it, it has it in there
     

  16. whitespider

    whitespider Member Guru

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    I think nvidia's hbao+ flag is a lot higher quality (no surprise there) so i will await a command or some way to edit individual settings so that i can disable the ingame version. Otherwise i'm taxing the framerate for no reason by combining them.

    Turning post aa in ryse off, adds a world of shimmer and aliasing, it looks like a different game. However no other setting makes this better/worse other than post aa. You would think shaders, but not the case here.
     
  17. BenYeeHua

    BenYeeHua Ancient Guru

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    They did shared about many AA solution with the PPT, each time they released a new crytek game, they will talk about it, and here is the Crysis 3.
    http://www.crytek.com/cryengine/presentations/the-rendering-technologies-of-crysis-3
    --
    And here is the Ryse, with any other game that share the result about AA solutions.
    http://advances.realtimerendering.com/s2014/
    http://advances.realtimerendering.c...4_Schulz_Mader_Ryse_Rendering_Techniques.pptx
     
  18. whitespider

    whitespider Member Guru

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    So it's their damn fault then ;)

    While I really want proper AA in shadows of mordor, i still think the reason they never included it was because the game put such a heavy emphasis on it's textures. And regardless of people saying "I don't see the difference between ultra and high", I will say that the textures in shadows of mordor where extremely high quality, and if i had strong post AA, there would be little need to run ultra textures, since the post would take a lot of that detail back to high levels.
     
  19. applejack

    applejack Master Guru

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    Ryse's "Temporal Antialiasing" is indeed mind blowing. very impressive stuff.

    sorry to go off topic but may I ask which flag is it exactly ?
     
  20. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    I have to disagree with this. A little averaging of high frequency information isn't going to make 1024x1024 normal maps look like their 512x512 equivalents. The difference will still be visible.


    But also, like I said, if you look at the Ryse presentations, there are sections on AA'ing for example specular elements before they are even rendered.
     

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