NVIDIA Announces Support for lots of RTX ON based games at Gamescom

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Aug 19, 2019.

  1. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    What's power draw and clock of RTX 2080Ti when its rasterization and other parts are fully used at same time? Is it some very low clock with very high power draw? Or is card on rather good side of power efficiency as given "12nm" is not just marketing term over previously used 16nm?
    It was ready. AMD would have released around that time too if they did not have two "oups". It's that nVidia opted out of 7nm at beginning.
     
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  2. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Turing was designed for samsung 10nm, they just couldn't get fab time.
     
  3. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    It's 290w with no RT - turning on RT actually reduces the power consumption.

    I disagree that it was ready - Nvidia shipped their entire lineup in October 2018.. AMD could barely yield Instinct/Vega 7nm months later (MI60's were back ordered until March).. and those are smaller chips than what you're arguing for and have an advantage of being sold at significantly higher margins.
     
  4. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    I'm having a really hard time understanding why Nvidia keeps showcasing the worst possible examples for RTX. Flat puddles are pretty much the ONLY thing RTX is completely unnecessary for, and it seems to be the only thing games are using. I really want RT to be successful (and that says a lot considering I have no intention on buying an RTX GPU in the foreseeable future) but as long as they keep using flat shiny surfaces, they're basically just shooting themselves in the foot.
     
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  5. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Reflections are an easy comparison and screen-space hits limits with what's visible in the camera and then having to rely on cube-mapping.
    Shadows can be impressive but a comparison is trickier for finer details like transitions, edges, overall distance and accuracy including improving self shadowing and indirect shadowing via ambient occlusion.

    GI would be the big one but it is likely also much more demanding in turn but we'll see when these next RTX games come out with Control first up and then benchmarks and graphical comparisons on and off and such. :)
    I like it, not a fan of the divide between AMD and NVIDIA GPU's again but ray-tracing still has a couple of years before it can become a standard, way more before it can start replacing rasterization since both will be needed for now and at least until consoles can do it as a standard in who knows how many generations.

    EDIT: Well the videos might not show it but any game with SSR just moving the camera around and seeing the reflection change depending on what info is available is telling, cube mapping would be how often it updates, resolution and other info but newer games have gotten better at utilizing it but the same flaws or drawbacks are still there even if it's masked via additional shaders or effects.
    (Not that different for how to check issues with AO or shadows but it tends to stand out less though distance and angles can be more noticeable.)

    But it is quite fast and the errors aren't too bad for the performance and how well developers are now using the effect.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  6. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    I mean I think that's showcased more because it's the one thing that looks like a visible improvement. Look at the call of duty photos for example, sure the RTX render is more accurate to real life but if you gave me those two pictures and said "which one is more accurate" without the RTX logo - I wouldn't know - they look like the same thing just the shadows are different. Maybe if I sat there and analyzed the image for an hour I could tell but just glancing I have no idea.

    That being said they showed quite a few games not doing reflections:

    https://babeltechreviews.com/ray-tracing-news-from-gamescom-2019/

    Hilbert just didn't post them all.
     
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  7. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    I think that´s because of the limited performance of current RTX cards available. RT may be the holy grail of real time graphics but Nvidia´s cards are simply too weak to display it´s true potential, so Nvidia has can only show (very) small glimpes of RT true potential and they have to do it in a way that games don´t become interactive slideshows. Solution: let´s show gamers/buyers some super realistic puddles!....
     
  8. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Planar reflections instead of SSR or hybrid.

    As for demonstration: Global illumination would be best thing in those games with a lot of shiny/glowing objects.
    Shadows are part of it, but they are not bad without RT.

    I must say that when Path of Exile got GI, it was really good IQ improvement.

    But here comes real RT:
    -> materials: surface harshness/light diffusion, translucency + transparency (reflections and refractions on both surface and inside of material)
     
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  9. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    I understand that but there are plenty of examples that have night and day differences that aren't just a bunch of shiny surfaces. Some of the screenshots in the link you provided have very noticeable differences. You might not be able to tell what the differences are by looking at each screenshot just once for a few seconds, but compare them back and forth and it's very obvious.

    This post I think is a great demo of RTX:
    https://forums.guru3d.com/goto/post?id=5701513#post-5701513

    That sort-of makes sense, but, I think it's actually more computationally taxing to render a reflection than a hued glow that reflected off an object. Remember, reflections require the GPU to basically render the same visuals twice in the same scene. Take the Dying Light 2 scene in the link Denial posted. The light is bouncing off the red paint on the generator, and is creating a faint red glow on the background objects. I can't imagine that would be more taxing for the GPU to render than a puddle, but, it's still a very distinct difference, and a better use-case of RTX.
     
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  10. rm082e

    rm082e Master Guru

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    Screenshots like these only push me further away from Nvidia right now. I don't want to subsidize the development of RTX over the next 5 years. If I'm going to put money towards it, I want a meaningful benefit for that money.
     
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  11. haste

    haste Master Guru

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    They should focus on using DXR for proper AO and GI. IMHO the only reason they use it for reflections, is because they can easily sell it.

    For example if you have a look at the 3rd and 4th image (synced), it's obvious that they use a different scene (lower LODs and simple lighting) for tracing reflections. So what you see in reflections has actually slightly different lighting than the main scene. This is the instance when I like SSR even more. DXR, in this case, looks like there is another low-quality scene below, as we did it in the old days :)

    I like DXR, it's the inevitable step forward, but I hate the implementations we see today...
     
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  12. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    you're paying for the extra fps the card brings, every card ever had some introductory tech that didn't run well on that gen and was turned off till later cards could

    There is absolutely nothing new about what is going on here no matter how much sawdust you have in your ears.
     
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  13. TheDeeGee

    TheDeeGee Ancient Guru

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  14. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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  15. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    I'm worried about implementation and the divide more than anything, if AMD and NVIDIA have their own exclusive separate solutions for D3D12 (Even if it goes through DX12 DXR to each respective vendors solution for ray tracing.) and then VLK through extensions support is going to be weird even if AMD decides to support ray-tracing and it becoming something of a standardized feature needs some unified solution though for now these early games gives a way for NVIDIA to showcase their RTX and ray-tracing technology and the areas they have focused on initially and might expand further as stronger hardware becomes available and development to the code itself and I keep forgetting the actual SDK name and suite here but RTX 2.0 for simplicity kinda.

    Though so far we've not heard what AMD might be doing with ray-tracing for the consumer and gaming segment even if Navi20 might have some form of GPU hardware support for speeding up the effect and it could be more related to productivity or fields such as audio which is also something I believe was mentioned for the upcoming console generation that is probably close to being formally announced now.

    Will be interesting to see how it goes, these early RTX titles will be NVIDIA only but for the broader whole and overall continuation of ray tracing it seems unlikely devs would implement effects 2x through what might be two very different API's and instruction sets and how the end result ends up so that's going to be a bit weird or whatever to call it and I can't see it overtaking the current way of doing things until there is some better standard solution but we'll see, not like that's a huge concern for these early games showcasing a couple of nice effects but this is still just the start of it and that's important too.


    EDIT: Meh seems I kinda mentioned that in the previous post already, hi there brain busy with some other important stuff as usual eh?
    (Yeah something like that.)
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019

  16. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    if he left nvidia, progress would hit a wall and there'd be no progress in pc graphics.
     
  17. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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  18. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    As long as all the big games implement it I don't care.

    3000 series is going to be optimised for RTX games. I can't wait to see how Nvidia balances performance on their next-gen cards.
     
  19. rm082e

    rm082e Master Guru

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    Comparing the 5700 XT and the 2070 Super, I don't see enough extra fps to justify the added price of the 2070 Super. That was my point. The 5700 XT looks like a better value right now.
     
  20. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    and then you factor in the drivers and what you want to do with your system.

    Custom AA hacks, Emulation and legacy opengl gaming, nvidia is king.
    surround gaming, AMD has an edge here.
    God forbid... SLI, nvidia is the only one showing up to the multigpu party lately (AMD discontinued crossfire for new boards and went dx12 mgpu only)
    Streaming and encoding, if you ignore the half arsed vendor provided apps, both are pretty on par and i don't believe either support AV1 yet.

    Pick based on your needs, but effectively the price is VCR vs DVD, old tech vs new tech and AMD can't force nvidia's hand to bring prices down till they have RT either.
     

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