Nvida Physx disabled now in Warframe with drivers later than 373.06

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Franz, Apr 4, 2017.

  1. Franz

    Franz Active Member

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    Nvida Physx disabled in Warframe drivers later than 373.06 and runs now again

    Why is nvidia not able to support actuell running games with weakly updates and hotfixes?
    Users have problems with memoryleaks and crashes. So Digital extrem decided to disable physx in game with drivers later than 373.06.
    What a shame, nvidia.

    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/782377-performance-and-the-future-of-physx-effects/

    And what a shame, nvidia.

    I'm realy sad about this.

    "April 7, 2017 Update:

    It seems the latest NVIDIA driver version 381.65 has fixed these leaks, so Update 20.1.1 should allow you to enable PhysX Effects if you're running this (or newer, in the future) driver versions. "
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2017
  2. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    Warframe developer can't fix their code and disables PhysX usage = bad NV, bad!
     
  3. Franz

    Franz Active Member

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    read article and don't post ****
     
  4. EdKiefer

    EdKiefer Ancient Guru

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    The link you gave gives me "server not found" error.
     

  5. Franz

    Franz Active Member

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    okay, i repaired it. thx EdKiefer
     
  6. Dagda

    Dagda Master Guru

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    warframe was nice with those effecs, sad that nvidia decided to block physx on this game
     
  7. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    Use your head and follow your own advice: if something works fine in a dozen of other applications and doesn't work in Warframe then what are the chances of this something being the culprit and not Warframe itself? A rhetorical question.
     
  8. Franz

    Franz Active Member

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    please, guy, read the article now and don't post something that shows you haven't.
     
  9. The Phoenix

    The Phoenix Maha Guru

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    this is not a nvidia issue,first they dumb down the physx for particle 2.0 which was only so they could give the consoles some type of "physx",now they have a supposed memory leak in physx what a joke ,so instead of reworking there engine they just disable it,glad im not spending any more money on this game then i already have
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2017
  10. nhlkoho

    nhlkoho Ancient Guru

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    If this was a direct result of Nvidia drivers why has it not been reported by other developers? Sounds to me that the engine is garbage and they don't know how to fix it so instead they blame Nvidia.
     

  11. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    If you roll back the drivers, past 373.06 - there are zero issues. Roll forward and you get memory leaks. So clearly something changed in the driver that breaks Warframes implementation. They also do claim that they investigated and it's not specific to Warframe -- it's not like there are many games that use hardware based PhysX anyway and how many people/devs are testing games from 2013 back specifically with hardware physx on newer drivers? Probably not many.

    Either way it doesn't matter because they removed like 90% of the PhysX stuff and implemented it into their own physics engine because the game is cross-platform now. When PhysX first shipped in the engine it was amazing, particles everywhere. It's mostly all been stripped out.

    Also, the Evolution Engine is like really good. At least in terms of quality/perf. I get 144fps at 4K and a pretty good looking game and it can render like 100+ dude on the screen at the same time. Aside from BF1 it's probably one of the most well optimized/high graphics games I've ever played.
     
  12. haste

    haste Master Guru

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    There is not much games using PhysX particles and Warframe is no doubt the most played game with these effects.

    Now, I'm not saying it has to be the driver fault but it definitely is most likely considering what changes have been made to each software:

    NVIDIA - Compute related issues they were solving since 373.06:
    Some GPUs (even Pascals) not Folding
    Adding "Optimize For Compute Performance" for Maxwell
    Hot-fix for 980TI not being recognized as PhysX capable

    DE
    Nothing.

    So NVIDIA definitely made some changes to compute pipeline.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2017
  13. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    what, so they removed most physx turbulence particles? :3eyes::pc1:
    Last time I played was on 580 & some more on 780gtx.. And I remember it looked and ran great with max physx fx
     
  14. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    They moved all the particle systems over to their own physics engine in order to enhance consoles/AMD platforms. I guess they didn't want to support both particles systems going forward (which is honestly a challenge considering how many frames/weapons/stuff there are with particles in the game) so they axed the PhysX ones. PhysX is still used in other ways though, rag-dolls and whanot.

    Honestly I didn't really mind it. PhysX looked cooler when it was like a few guys -- but if you were doing a 45m+ survival, with 100+ dudes on the screen and you have like an ember or nova in your group, the entire map was just billions of particles. It became almost unplayable because you couldn't tell what was happening. Did look really awesome though lol
     
  15. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    ...Or - just a thought - the implementation needs to be tweaked to work properly on a newer driver version.

    Here's another thing to ponder upon:
    372.90 - NVIDIA PhysX System Software - 9.16.0318
    373.06 - NVIDIA PhysX System Software - 9.16.0318
    378.92 - NVIDIA PhysX System Software - 9.16.0318
    I.e. there were no changes in PhysX driver between these releases. At all.

    Each time I see a dev "making claims" instead of providing bug reports to the IHV in question I smell something rotten.
     

  16. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    I never said that the implementation couldn't be fixed on DE's side. I personally don't care who fixes it or if it gets fixed at all because like I said, PhysX is barely used in the game anyway.

    My experience with this issue is the following: I quit playing Warframe back about a year or so ago but recently fired it up in Decemberish. I experienced weird lock-ups and crashes and just assumed it was my system being bad - because I have some other weird issues I've been dealing with. On a long shot I posted a thread over on the warframe subreddit and got a PM from a guy that told me he had the same issues and rolled back to the release 1080 driver and that fixed it. I tested it and the problems went away, rolled forward and they came back. I stopped playing though because who wants to roll back a driver for one game.

    So there is definitely something that changed in the driver, I don't know if it's 373.06 or a different one (I only tested between whatever was the latest driver for the 1080 in December and the release driver). I never knew it was related to PhysX when i was having the issues otherwise I would have just turned it off.

    This is also a perfect example of why devs should never (and usually don't) release information like this to the community. It just becomes a finger pointing nutdrag. In my opinion DE is handling this fine. They got reports of issues, they investigated and determined it was PhysX. As a temporary workaround they are disabling PhysX with a hotfix and they even wrote in the post they are contacting Nvidia on getting it fixed. Their only mistake was posting their explanation on the forums instead just saying "PhysX is temporary disabled due to issues" or something generic like another company would do - but that's clearly the correct way to handle it and this thread is an example of why.
     
  17. Undesirable

    Undesirable Member Guru

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    Looks like there are two sides of the coin here. Warframe devs are at fault for phasing PhysX out of their game almost completely and making up excuses, nVidia are at fault for making sure that PhysX is proprietary and even artificially locking their drivers so it can't run alongside AMD GPUs.

    Oh, and AMD are at fault for taking so long to release GPUs that compete with nVidia.

    Edit: Consoles are also at fault for holding back PC gaming.

    That's a four-sided coin. Never seen one of those.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
  18. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    No, they are not. Their post on how they made some "investigation" makes zero sense as there is no NV's statement in it which would actually make such "investigation" valuable. Without NV's involvement this is nothing more than finger pointing from the dev who can't be bothered to spend resources on fixing stuff which doesn't work and so they disable it and says that it's not their fault.

    In practice, when something doesn't work in s/w it's almost always more complex than just one's party fault. The fact that there were no PhysX changes kinda hints that the issue isn't solely in the driver, and NV is known to react pretty quickly to such issues when they actually exist and are reported to them.

    So there's two possibilities: 1) the issue doesn't exist and it's solely DE's fault; 2) DE couldn't be bothered to work with NV on fixing the issue which is again DE's fault. Here you go.
     
  19. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    The issue does exist because I replicated it by swapping between drivers on the exact same build of Warframe.

    DE is working with Nvidia, they literally said they were in their post.

    The idea of an investigation making "zero" sense because they didn't provide a statement from the other party is laughable at best. Especially when they aren't even pointing the finger at the other party, but merely explaining why it's more difficult to fix because it involves software from another party. The only negative spin against Nvidia comes from the OP of this thread who is misguided.

    I don't see anything wrong with what they wrote. They explained why they are disabling it and the steps they are taking/took to find and fix it.

    What would you rather them do? Just randomly disable it with no explanation and have even more pissed off users? Let it continue to crash games for the majority of their users with no explanation until Nvidia gets back to them with a fix or helps them fix it in their code? Because those are the two other possibilities, not whatever nonsense you posted. And both those options are garbage.

    This isn't something that like cropped up in the last week. It's been an on-going issue for several months now. DE/Users on the forum only found it was related to PhysX a few weeks ago. Something in the driver changed that broke it. It's possible that it can be fixed entirely on DE's side - but we don't know that and clearly DE doesn't know that either because they are asking Nvidia for help on troubleshooting it - which seems like a perfectly logical response to the problem. Also DE isn't like some random indie company that doesn't know what it's doing. They are fairly experienced, fairly large developer with a rather decent in house engine. I think it's safe to say that the problem here isn't like a missed checkbox but something more difficult to fix.

    Again, I don't see the issue with their post, aside from them giving too much information because clearly people can't handle it. The only ones pointing fingers are the various finger-pointers in this thread.
     
  20. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    So maybe they shouldn't make any broad statements before they've actually done anything?

    You're not into laws much, are you? With this statement being from one of the party involved it has precisely zero weight _unless_ this statement include the details on agreement between parties. Since there's no such details and nothing on the issue from NV - this is a statement from only one side of the issue and thus cannot be considered relevant.

    They blatantly point out NV's driver as the source of the issue while they are the only party who even said anything on the matter and they are directly involved in the issue as the s/w developer and there are no other games suffering from such issue. You don't see anything wrong here?

    Fix their ****. Don't point blame around before you've done it. I know for a fact that NV is very responsive and fast in fixing game breaking bugs in their code. Thus I'm 99% sure that it was DE who ****ed up here in one way or another.

    The new driver today has a new PhysX redist btw. Someone should check it out.
     

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