'North Korean torpedo' sank South's navy ship

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by Rifle_Grunt, May 20, 2010.

  1. nvlddmkm

    nvlddmkm Banned

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    Indeed. The view of life tends to lead itself to the viewpoint of the recursive nature of the standpoint of the viewpoint of life itself.
     
  2. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    Exactly.
     
  3. Makalu

    Makalu Ancient Guru

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    since this was obviously directed at me and i have a few seconds of time to humor you with...consider the following:

    It's common for countries to detonate large amounts of TNT prior to a nuclear test in order to calibrate the instruments

    Our first two bombs "delivered" weighed between 8-10,000 pounds and not deliverable via even a modern ICBM

    Approximately three years passing between N. Korea's first test and their second. (this is not the Manhattan Project revisited folks...obviously they don't have to reinvent the wheel in all of it's parts but still even today several years at the least to go from a prototype bomb to one deliverable via missile by any country...advances in both the nuke and the missile are currently needed by the DPRK)

    Iraq had the 5th largest army in the world and missile technology before being decimated during the turkey shoot known as the Gulf War and the tactics he used then and especially during the war with Iran were straight out of not even WWII but WWI with trenched warfare, mass frontal assaults and chemical weapons...and millions of deaths. Yeah yeah I know Iraq is not N. Korea and visa versa but when I see "4th largest army in the world" I have to scoff a bit...the fact is that if you took every "non-allied" country in the world and amassed them they don't match up on paper against the US Army, Air Force and Navy/Marines at conventional warfare.

    Yeah they can do some damage and you don't want to be on the receiving end of even WWII tech but there is a difference between being a nuisance and a threat.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2010
  4. hunuok

    hunuok Active Member

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    At the end of the day KJI will continue to use "threats" as leverage. He has done so for decades. Unfortunately, he has already named his successor (his second son I believe) so the reign will continue.

    The US/UN will use sanctions which I believe is the only viable option without starting a war. These sanctions will only make the suffering of the NK citizens even worse.

    The only way to stop this is for the NK people to revolt. They have the power to improve their way of life. Highly improbable given the "mental" brainwashing they receive and/or threats from "big brother", but possible IF enough people WANT change. From the information given by defectors, there are MORE disgruntled NKs than KJI will have the rest of the world believe.

    It's cold and inhumane, but starve the country and let the citizens decide what's best for their own country.
     

  5. IcE

    IcE Don Snow Staff Member

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    I'd really like to hear this "truth" that you seem to believe is so utterly superior to my thoughts that you don't even need to say it. Also, the age argument isn't going to hold water here. Being an old guy doesn't make you any smarter on the subject of world issues and politics. Unless you were a military general that served in Korea, or a political analyst/fortune teller by profession, you know as little as the rest of us.
     
  6. crushilista

    crushilista Ancient Guru

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    [​IMG] Although i'm with you, make sure you don't flame him accidentally while debating.
     
  7. Kaleid

    Kaleid Ancient Guru

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    Actually Ahma is not the leader of Iran:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/07/AR2007120701614.html

    And he couldn't commit genocide even if he wanted to. He doesn't have that much power. And what he supposedly said about Israel has been put into question since in his speech he compared the zionist regime to the communistic Soviet regime, which vanished "from the pages of time". But it wasn't done with the barrel of a gun...it collapsed on its own.

    I think people should ask themselves why he is painted as a leader by both the media and politicians. Personally I think this is about selling another war. Iraq redux.

    And there are five reasons I'm personally not afraid of Iran getting the nukes:
    1. They have a fatwa against it, calling it un-Islamic
    2. The country is open for inspections will likely remain so
    3. They are signatories of the NPT
    4. The recent deal with Turkey and some other country...
    5. Their military budget is the size of Sweden which has about 9 million population whilst Iran has about 70 million. The budget is small.

    “Everyone wants to go to Baghdad. Real men want to go to Tehran.” [Newsweek, 8/11/2002;]

    How diplomacy can be designed to fail

    Kim Jong Ill is likely a much more probable problem, as well as a Pakistan which lacks stability.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2010
  8. jimmyme

    jimmyme Active Member

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    Please dont simply accept what you see on your TV, ask some more questions...

    He asks for nuclear power yes, but he also asks for STRONGER INTERNATIONAL controls for ALL countries. He asks for a STRONGER FAIRER system for the world.

    Well truth is, this ofcourse is unwelcome by the USA. The USA has NO interest in a world where we all live under the same rules. It will simply remain doing what it has for decades. Tell other countries not to do something that it itself does..... How is that a fair, sustainable system?

    And as for human rights. Most of these abuses are indeed supported by the USA. Yes I am not joking. Hear me out.
    A large amount of these dictators were supported and indeed brought to power BY THE USA. See: Iraq, Romania, Afghanistan etc. etc. etc.

    See Chomsky: "If they do it its Terrorism, if we do it its Counter-Terrorism"

    Thats why more and more in the world, people see the USA as the greatest terrorist nation in the world. Its not that difficult. But we are slow:(

    This is a horrible interview but discusses the issue:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CKpCGjD8wg&feature=related

    Chomsky, the most quoted intellectual of our time.

    Sorry for battering on on an off the issue, but this should be clear.

    North Korea is a sad, difficult situation. A solution is neede where the people will not suffer, they should not have to pay the price of their brutal regime. War is never an answer.
     
  9. Devolution

    Devolution Ancient Guru

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    you said Noam Chomsky and are quoting him verbatim without putting a single thought of your own into the argument.

    Yeah...you'd be best to simply...step away from the debate now.
     
  10. Kaleid

    Kaleid Ancient Guru

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    In the media we generally hear (and I won't say this isn't only true about America, because other nations do it as well) a different tune than the one they pretty much keep to themselves.

    When it comes to terrorism there are for instance studies. Here's one from the Pentagon:

    'They hate our policies, not our freedom'
    'Muslims do not hate our freedom, but rather they hate our policies [the Pentagon report says]. The overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights, and the long-standing, even increasing, support for what Muslims collectively see as tyrannies, most notably Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan and the Gulf states. Thus, when American public diplomacy talks about bringing democracy to Islamic societies, this is seen as no more than self-serving hypocrisy.'

    If you're selling the population a war it is easier to say things such as "they attacked us for our freedom". Sorry, but I don't personally believe that, at least not as the main reason. 1953 Operation Ajax (UK/US effort) backfired into the 1979 revolution in Iran for instance. Interventionism of course can, just like other events have negative consequences, blowbacks.

    And this one is a biggie.. I have never heard any politician refer to it. I wonder why..

    How 268 Terrorist Groups Worldwide Ended, 1968–2006
    [​IMG]
    http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9351/index1.html
     

  11. jimmyme

    jimmyme Active Member

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    OK. I guess I don't see it as an 'argument'. More like how it is...?

    Anyway, I think I am selfishly derailing the thread and furthermore I also feel these issues will give me high blood-pressure. So actually I will do as you say and 'step away' from this debate. For the good of us all.

    Peace :)
     
  12. Indeo

    Indeo Ancient Guru

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    Well, it's been at least 4 days since this was posted, and everyone's still alive, so I guess it's all right ^__^
     
  13. Rifle_Grunt

    Rifle_Grunt Ancient Guru

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    so say they are going to announce the retaliation this week.....
     
  14. Rifle_Grunt

    Rifle_Grunt Ancient Guru

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    Here is the US response http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8700190.stm

    This is getting more intresting by the second

    South Korea have frozen trade with NK. This is 13% of the norths GDP so is going to cause a lot of but-hurt for them (by that I mean the already starving civilian population).

    "North Korea says it will retaliate.

    The country's main newspaper called the investigation an "intolerable, grave provocation". BBC news

    What form of retaliation this is, we will have to wait and see.... the US has promised full backing to SK

    SK is to resume "Psycological Warfare" with the north
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2010
  15. nOv1c3

    nOv1c3 Maha Guru

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    Sorry Chomsky Is nothing more than a socialist and a Anarchist and a self proclaimed intellectual , Anyone that listen to or believes in his psychology bable is a nutt themselfs :p

    War is never an answer ? sorry If it wasnt for the UN involvement in this war in the first place , The US wouild of finnished this thing 50 years ago then we wouldnt of had 50 years of this regime in power and the suffering of millions of NK people

    I see the Korean war as just another Failed UN action to add to every other failure sence there inception in 1948
     

  16. nOv1c3

    nOv1c3 Maha Guru

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    Oboma Admin is nothing but a bunch of back stabbers , They well throw SK under the buss for China support on Iran sanctions

    Hell Obama threw his own white grandmother under the bus for political gain so dont think he wont do the same to SK lol
     
  17. heliman41

    heliman41 Master Guru

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    China businesses will take up any of the SK trade. So id guess all in all not much will change, the local factorys bordering & hiring SK workers is not involved in this despute & will run business as usual.
    Somebody could use a underwater radar upgrade on their ships IMHO...................
     
  18. volkov956

    volkov956 Ancient Guru

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    Just mud slinging time depening if it upgrades to stone throwing we won't see much happen
     
  19. davetheshrew

    davetheshrew Ancient Guru

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    somebodys gunna get pwned for sure :(
     
  20. Dustpuppy

    Dustpuppy Ancient Guru

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