No Optimization for Kepler (GTX780 - GTX780TI - TITAN etc. ) Banchmarks inside !

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by bigosik, May 8, 2015.

  1. snip3r_3

    snip3r_3 Ancient Guru

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    Are people forgetting the amount of drivers and "magical optimization" that Kepler got when it was launched and was the flagship product since 2012? After 2+ years of optimizations, I don't think they can do much more for a certain architecture. Driver overhead optimizations benefit everyone, and so far, everyone HAS gotten improvements in draw calls. If you buy something that is near being replaced, YOU are the one to blame for buyers remorse.

    Plus, Maxwell (2) just launched, it is its turn to get optimizations that Kepler users have enjoyed for 2 years since their own launch. Similarly, AMD does the same, new drivers are generally optimized for GCN 1.1+ (though there hasn't been alot of drivers lately that really did anything), you don't see VSR/Freesync on GCN 1.0 parts even though someone hacked the driver to enable VSR on all cards (with certain limits).
     
  2. Neolitejukebox

    Neolitejukebox New Member

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    Tested 350 ( GTA ) 352.86 and 347.86 drivers on witcher 3 on 4 separate saves.

    Small fps differences ( the gta driver 350 actually crashes and gives massive stuttering ).
    The 352.86 wins by 1fps on 3 of the saves. So nothing unusual here.

    Although I do thing the game ( Witcher 3 ) runs at an horrible state in 6xx and 7xx cards , I do find it weird that instead of trying to find actual proof, people are flocking to ideas that can be so easily proven wrong. ( although I did not install older PhysX versions )

    When I first read the "kepler is nerfed @ 350+" , I installed the old drivers , only to have the same results as TheRealZepher. Little to small changes between drivers.

    TL;DR : Although I do thing Witcher 3 performance is ... sad ... I cannot replicate the "352 nerfs 7xx cards" theory.
     
  3. Corbus

    Corbus Ancient Guru

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  4. psychok9

    psychok9 Master Guru

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    I think that the point is if they STOP to "patch/optimize" new games after a year... the performance collapse and you need to change card every year for get "optimal" performance like before... it is a bad behaviour.

    As reported a nVidia driver programmer (I don't remember the link), games are often badly written, and then nVidia/AMD patch them using the driver and some specific for the game routines (preset or new) for get good performance from the cards.
     

  5. psychok9

    psychok9 Master Guru

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    Sorry but you are missing totally the point.
    We don't want MORE performance, but the same "level" of optimizations that you can get in other games with the same card. They aren't old. They must optimized like Maxwell cards.

    Now I'll buy a 980 card, I need it now.
    What will happen the next year with Pascal? 600€ to trash!?
    3-4 years are ok for change card... but 1-2 year is totally unacceptable, expecially for a premium card like 780ti.
     
  6. Shadowdane

    Shadowdane Maha Guru

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    Well Maxwell does bring about 3 times the performance for high tessellation geometry.

    The games that we are seeing such a massive performance margin between generations is due to these games using tesselation that's off the charts. Witcher 3 uses 64x tesselation for HairWorks! That's just nuts and there should be a way to adjust this to get better perfomance if the user wants.

    I turned off Tessellation in GTA5 and my framerate never dips below 60fps now... also seeing about 25-30% lower GPU usage on each GPU. So had some extra horsepower to turn on TXAA without a framerate hit!!

    I don't have Project Cars or Witcher 3 to test... but I think this purely comes down to Maxwell having significantly better Tessellation performance. I've seen some benchmarks of people turning off HairWorks and performance is fine.

    I think at best what we might see is an adjustable Tessellation option in the control panel like AMD has added to the CCC. Apparently they can run HairWorks by setting it to 8x or 16x with acceptable performance. But with Nvidia cards we can't do this... we are forced to whatever the developer decided the best setting.
     
  7. zoomer-fodder

    zoomer-fodder Active Member

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    I have a 32fps average 4K Witcher 3 (v1.03) all maxedout with AA Ultra super-puper settings, on 780 sli @ 1200/6600. GTX 980 have more fps with this settings, and very expensive GTX Titan-Z get a lower fps than me. This is a shame nvidia. No optimization for Keppler.
     
  8. JulioCesarSF

    JulioCesarSF Active Member

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    OMFG, there is something verrryyy wrong. SLI 780 Ti poor performance too.
     
  9. psychok9

    psychok9 Master Guru

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    Exactly... and this seems that nVidia stopped to work on Kepler driver on new games... a shame and backfire for nvidia.
     
  10. JulioCesarSF

    JulioCesarSF Active Member

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    =/ My cards have 1 year ~ 1+1/2 year i don't remember. This should not happen.:cry:

    The problem is, i don't like amd, and i'm starting to not like nvidia.


    I still have hope in D12.
     

  11. psychok9

    psychok9 Master Guru

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    For some aspects, me too... and I'm worried about the future of AMD.
    In a perfect market we should have 3 competitors (33%-33%-33%) :D

    I hope they'll release a fix and explanation soon...
     
  12. Singleton99

    Singleton99 Maha Guru

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    All this Kepler conspiracy is spreading out of control it's all over the net ,,,,. and should this end up being half true (which its probably not) it's bad for nvidia. Just like the 970 memory allocation .

    Looking forwards to a response from Nvidia ,but they're never going to admit to such things even if it was true.
     
  13. Blacklac

    Blacklac Member Guru

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    And what happens if/when NVIDIA releases an optimization driver for older hardware? Will people apologize en mass? Lol. It's like people are new to PC gaming...
     
  14. JulioCesarSF

    JulioCesarSF Active Member

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    That makes no sense.
     
  15. Grimbarian

    Grimbarian Ancient Guru

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    Are there any drivers which would be better for Witcher3 on the 770?
     

  16. ---TK---

    ---TK--- Ancient Guru

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    No they will not, but with mass media, internet, facebook etc, if a company does something wrong it will be plastered everywhere, even when a company does not do anything wrong the witch hunters will still get the word out. I am waiting for new drivers as the ones released for the witcher 3 are very unstable for a lot of people including me.
     
  17. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    Well folks over @ Red are doing the same with this so called API dx11 driver overhead and AMD drivers, that got even more spread then this..

    At least AMD will now be more active and optimize where it needs to, I dont see any harm if nvidia does the same what's been mentioned in this topic here, Maxwell market is not huge enough, maybe in 1year but atm most use Kepler or older..
     
  18. Blacklac

    Blacklac Member Guru

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    I wont claim impeccable grammar but I feel that statement was perfectly understandable... I could try to break it down for you, if you need.
     
  19. zoomer-fodder

    zoomer-fodder Active Member

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    AMD new drivers pushup 7xxx series old cards, NVIDIA not.
     
  20. xylotism

    xylotism New Member

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    Hey guys, just made an account specifically to comment on this thread.

    I think the general consensus is that while they haven't deliberately "crippled" Kepler (as shown by latest drivers vs. newest drivers having little impact), it's obvious there are no performance improvements in the latest drivers for anything but Maxwell. Then there are two ways this could go:

    1. Nvidia stops optimizing all new drivers for Kepler and prior -- their official stance being that they have to devote their efforts toward improving existing-gen hardware and that old hardware is just outdated. All games starting from the Witcher 3 going forward will not be optimized for anything less than Maxwell outside of emergency compatibility fixes, and framerates will be at the mercy of the developer.

    2. Nvidia releases a delayed driver update for Kepler and prior, allowing the same optimization (and relative performance) Maxwell sees in games Witcher 3 and newer.

    My opinion: I think it's certainly possible that Nvidia just hasn't finished the Witcher 3 drivers for Kepler-series, and that we could very well see a massive performance boost from an upcoming driver update. They could also be testing the waters to see how the community will react to older architectures not receiving the same attention as the most cuttting-edge.

    If it does end up being #1 and the Witcher 3 is just the first of many games that fail to perform adequately on <Maxwell, Nvidia has some serious explaining to do. That means that their official standpoint is that you need to buy a new *70 or higher every year for $300+ to stay current with the latest games. I don't think that a GPU series' lifespan has ever been so short.

    I guess only time will tell what Nvidia's plans are, but if it's #1, I'm going to have to consider buying a new *70 every year or an AMD card every two -- I just don't see the value in spending $600 on a *80 for it to be outdated in a year.
     

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