No More CSAA in Maxwell GPUs

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by lowenz, Mar 15, 2014.

  1. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    No, Not even close.

    Have you PLAYED with MSAA+FXAA in comparison to TXAA? There is a HUGE difference. (And unless you downsample heavily, FXAA much like SMAA will completely counteract a lot of stuff already AA'd by MSAA and actually cause aliasing.)

    TXAA has absolutely 0 blur filter, there is absolutely nothing even remotely related to FXAA in TXAA. Timothy Lottes himself has said this.

    The blur is a direct result of the resolve filter and the removal of Temporal aliasing. Which is completely different than FXAA which like SMAA 1x detects the entire image as a single 2D object and attempts to filter it.

    Exactly. FXAA by itself just doesn't work. The higher the resolution, the less it blurs and the better it AA's. But it still doesn't handle any kind of Temporal aliasing until you combine it with SSAA. Even then depending on the game, it may not work great.

    And the exact same is true about SMAA and MSAA.

    Quoted for Truth. I bet you are one of those people who turns on SweetFX and then proceeds to sharpen the crap out of the game. Making it look like ass. It's amazing when you look at presets people make for SFX how much people sharpen the crap out of stuff and make it look ridiculous in the process.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2014
  2. D4rKy21

    D4rKy21 Banned

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    MSAA, MLAA, SMAA they are the best in my opinion al those others aa,s are just one blurry mess.

    These AA,s are ofcourse more demanding because they hardware related, but i prefer this anytime over the other AA,s.
     
  3. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

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    Except that MSAA does help with motion too (for geometry pixel crawling) but obviously doesn't do anything for shader or texture aliasing.
     
  4. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    Yes which I also said in the post. It only handles geometry
     

  5. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    And yet you still seem to ignore the fact its not free like MSAA, bound to only few games via dll file. Nothing special about that even if its so "awesome"
     
  6. Spets

    Spets Ancient Guru

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    We're discussing quality, not availability.
    MSAA is a good AA method if all you plan on doing is taking screenshots, for those that like their games in motion like film, temporal AA removes pixel crawling. TXAA also does it with less of a performance hit and an unnoticeable slight blur unless you're comparing screenshots, which again is not the point of temporal AA. Assassin's Creed IV and Batman AO look fantastic with it.

    Anyway this has been off-topic enough. There's a lot of other methods I'd choose over CSAA, it was nice to use when released but now there's better options available.
     
  7. Terepin

    Terepin Master Guru

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    I'm not using SweetFX. At all.
     
  8. Memorian

    Memorian Ancient Guru

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    I would only use TXAA in combination with sweetFX for sharpening.
     
  9. lowenz

    lowenz Master Guru

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    OK guys, nice AA-war thread :D, but the main problem still remains: WHY NVidia removed CSAA support?
     
  10. flexy

    flexy Member Guru

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    There was a couple of games, I think Tombraider one of them where TXAA actually is VERY decent and looks excellent.

    In TSW (The Secret World), TXAA looks like a blurry mess, it's literally that all the details and crispness of the image gets lost. (Don't know anymore how it looked in Assassin's Creed).

    The idea of combining TXAA and sweetfx for sharpening is great, have to look into it.
     

  11. Shadowdane

    Shadowdane Maha Guru

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    TXAA looks awesome if they do it right!! Yah a few games did something odd with it and ended up with a blurry image.

    It looks awesome in, Splinter Cell Blacklist and Batman: Arkham Origins.

    TXAA basically uses a combination of hardware AA and a Temporal filter to smooth out edges. Depending on the settings for the Temporal filter can result in a softer image. Some games aren't as aggressive with the filtering and still look very sharp with TXAA.
     
  12. DAOWAce

    DAOWAce Member

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    RIP CSAA.

    It's been a long time since I used it, but it didn't really seem to do anything noticeable. Still, it was worth using 16xCSAA over 8xMSAA due to the horrible performance hit without much difference in cost from 4xMSAA.

    I'm another one of those "TXAA is blurry trash" people. I can't stand it, nor FXAA, which isn't real anti-aliasing at all, just a blur filter to give the illusion of 2x anti-aliasing. Instead of shimmering, it's now blurry shimmering.

    SMAA is probably the best type of AA I've seen to date in terms of IQ and performance. Still pretty bad in certain areas like thin transparent objects such as fences (SMIM'd small dense fences in Skyrim for example), where it's nothing but a shimmery mess, but everywhere else it's pretty great.

    Maybe a new version of TXAA focused on removing the goddamn image blur would be a great solution, but I've not seen it yet, and unless it works in all titles via driver enforcement, it's not going to pickup traction.

    SGSSAA is probably the best looking AA we can currently use. Shame NVIDIA really ruined its IQ over DX9 and the negative LOD clamp no longer works after Fermi.

    NVIDIA keep taking one step forward, two steps backwards. Why can't they leave everything as is and work to improve what we have instead of deprecate it? I mean hell, I can't even play some older games now after upgrading to a 780; they just refuse to work with hardware acceleration anymore.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
  13. Shadowdane

    Shadowdane Maha Guru

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    Yah would be nice if they find a way to make TXAA a driver enforced feature...

    But I remember reading Nvidia said this isn't possible due to the way the filtering works with hardware AA.
     
  14. Terepin

    Terepin Master Guru

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    Tomb Raider doesn't have TXAA support.
     
  15. Prelim

    Prelim Member

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    x2,

    the main problem is that SMAA 2Tx or SMAA 4x requires implementation by game developers, SMAA 1x on the other hand can be injected in any game using SweetFX for instance.... I still think SMAA 1x beats several AA modes (FXAA, MLAA, low to medium MSAA) but remains not sufficient to cover it all, like SMAA 2Tx/4x would do!
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2014

  16. Phroster

    Phroster Master Guru

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    Seems this is all a matter of taste, anyone has any facts to back up which AA is better ?

    imo the best AA would the be one that provides the best quality (least jaggies and blur) compared to the performance loss you get.

    Still wondering if they removed the option for CSAA in the NVCPL, but also in nvidia inspector?
     
  17. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    I won't miss CSAA since I never used it, but I'm sure some might.

    I'm another TXAA fan, saw it on AC4 and Batman and it looked fantastic, gave it more of a CG movie look and less like a game, does need to be less exclusive though.
     
  18. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    And this is the inherent problem with TXAA and I think it's a bad move on Nvidia's part.

    I'd kill to see something like TXAA on consoles or other games
     
  19. Terepin

    Terepin Master Guru

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    Tried SMAA 4x in Crysis 3. I still had aliased edges.
    Tried SMAA Ultra in Crysis 2. Gave me worse result than FXAA Ultra.
     
  20. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

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    TXAA in AC4 Black Flag was the best AA method to remove aliasing of all the ropes on the ship.
     

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