No more cracked games in two years ?

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jan 7, 2016.

  1. waltc3

    waltc3 Maha Guru

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    The point is....(drumroll) that price is the prime driver of piracy. The closer the price of legitimate software moves to $0 per copy, the closer the rate of piracy for that software drops towards 0. Charging $100 for a game is likely to result in piracy rates possibly as high as 500% over what the same game would accrue in piracy if it cost $20...it's the trend that counts. The better the price the more copies will sell, period. This is why companies like EA are ape over consoles--it's a prison market more or less. If you buy a console you have to buy games for it else it becomes a doorstop. The console market is far smaller than the general computer markets, too, which gives the publishers the rationale to jack up prices as high as the ceilings will allow.

    It's the same principle behind the decision of publishers not to do game demos any more--but "trailers"--as if they weren't games at all, but movies. What happens is that if people don't like the demos they won't buy the game--which is antithetical to the game publishers--they want to get our money first, under a no-refunds policy, and then promise to "fix" the games with subsequent patches. Which often does not happen, as everybody knows. It's surely a bona fide racket. Microsoft, for instance, tried really hard to bring DRM to the xBone--and has fallen behind Sony in the console wars ever since because of it--even though they abandoned those plans.

    I've long believed that if it means they'll have to seriously get off their $50-$70 MSRPs, publishers don't give a crap about piracy. They'll pay some company a very large fee to "copy-protect" their software even if it means a huge inconvenience to their buying customers--they simply don't care. They'd prefer to have the piracy as opposed to dropping the price to reasonable levels for new releases ($29-$39.)

    Companies like CDPR with their no-DRM games (Witcher 3 & Obsidian's PoE from Steam both are DRM-free--steam doesn't have to be running or even installed to run those games, believe it or not) and DRM-free distributors like GOG are doing a lot to free up the software markets, but we still have a long way to go.
     
  2. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Steam is DRM. It's just DRM done correctly, which is kind of my point. DRM is fine as long as it's not intrusive. Denuvo is not a digital platform like steam is, obviously, but it's also not like Ubisoft's earlier efforts.

    Obviously I agree that game developers need to make good games if they want sales, and I also agree that annoying DRM schemes and systems can negatively impact sales. But if Witcher 3 shipped with Denuvo it wouldn't bother me at all. Which I guess is ultimately my point. I don't see an argument at all against Denuvo -- people tried with the SSD wear stuff, but that was quickly dismissed as false.

    I'm not really advocating DRM, I'm advocating Denuvo, which is what the article is about. There seems to be people that are upset or ultimately want Denuvo to get cracked and I'm not sure why anyone would support that. Will it? Probably, but why would I want that? It does what the studios want, it prevents piracy and it does what I want, it doesn't bother me with annoying internet connection nonsense or game launch issues.
     
  3. Backstabak

    Backstabak Master Guru

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    Exactly, but problem is that alot of people just fall for the flashy trailers and they preorder for some reasons. Basically giving inscentive for publishers to focus on marketing and convicing everyone to preorder the game insted of actually delivering a good product.

    Denuvo is quite sensible, but i doubt it's cheap and cost has to go somewhere.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
  4. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    So the answer for that is to just download the game for free? I know that isn't what your saying but that's basically the jist of the pirate's argument. All it does is give those publishers/devs an excuse. The better move is to just not play the game at all.
     

  5. nhlkoho

    nhlkoho Ancient Guru

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    Being a good product or not has nothing to do with it. People pirate games/software/movies because its easy to do. You can argue that point all you want but the whole try it before you buy it argument is bull$hit. 99% of people who already downloaded a pirate copy of the game is not going to then pay $60 for a legit copy and redownload the thing over again.

    And being a good product or not is completely subjective. Everyone has differing opinions about what is a good game. If a game sounds interesting to me I buy it. Sometimes it turns out to be good, sometimes it turns out to be a turd. That's a chance you take with a lot of things in life. Just because you have the ability to pirate doesn't mean you should.
     
  6. MaXThReAT

    MaXThReAT Master Guru

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    Lets say it ends up un-crackable. Denuvo has a monopoly. Every publisher now wants Denuvo. Denuvo raises they licensing cost. That cost will be passed along to you. Previews and reviews are under NDA and embargo. It's just all bad and only takes power away from the consumer.
    Yes the answer is simply wait and see what other say. But devs don't like people to wait and learn. Hence you don't get the fancy pre-order stuff. Missing parts of the games. It all is rigged against the consumer and this will do nothing but give them more power to push exactly what they have been pushing for the past few years. In the end it matters not. It will be cracked.
     
  7. BladeRunner

    BladeRunner Ancient Guru

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    I disagree. Multiplayer is what drives sales and a multiplayer done right ensures that a pirated copy mutates into a retail copy. Single player only games always had a tough time with piracy, but they are very few and far between nowadays and if they do get released they are always priced competitively or come with guaranteed DLCs as pre-requisite.

    People who torrent a pirated game (for the 99% out there) do not make a financial profit from it (which is what Piracy is at its core), it cannot count as a profit loss either, since the person did not expect to buy this game in the first place, hence no sale was ever in talks. You either wanted to buy it day one or you didn't (YouTube, twitch etc can help you make up your mind)

    The same also happens for TV-shows, music and other media, Game of Thrones is the most pirated show ever, yet its ratings and everything else ensure a healthy profit regardless and HBO bosses are in-fact proud that the show makes the top spot year-on-year.

    So trust me, the big fat cats of EA,Activision,UBI etc do not care if their game gets pirated to mockery and indie devs always provide early-access at a reasonable price and if you want to support them (and you damn should) you can go ahead and buy the early access.

    Denuvo - what a load of BS, I am sure we have heard it all before. It will get cracked once the master key for the encryption gets found out/leaked by angry employee via pastebin/reverse-engineered -it always does, until a 2 factor auth system will get introduced per game RSA style, this will always be the case and even then there are doubts !

    They were toting next level protection for BluRays, it was cracked within a week of release. CLASS was cracking games from the floppy days, 3DM is considered a P2P group in a grand scheme of things, once the big boys get their kool-aid fueled ego to crack this, they will - FACT.

    I believe its a grey area that is best left untouched, much like USENET, torrents etc, people will never come to an agreement with these technologies.
     
  8. rflair

    rflair Don Commisso Staff Member

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    Denuvo as far as I know works like a multiple spinning wheel check, it has no master key. 3DM basically builds a database of the end values, it is easily adaptable and never the same twice, every game requires a new database.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
  9. BSim500

    BSim500 New Member

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    The SSD wear stuff may have been false but one of the devs of Lords of the Fallen (which uses Denuvo) admitted it reduces performance by 5-10%. It isn't the "cost-less" manic panacea you're advocating it to be.
     
  10. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Uh, no. They said 1-5% and then later clarified in the twitch stream chat that it only impacts performance on initial load. Once it's done decrypting it's fine. But I guess it's cool to change numbers for the sake of argument.
     

  11. Nijohc

    Nijohc Master Guru

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    Not sure about the Atari ST, never had one but they were certainly prominent on the Amiga along with Fairlight, Razor1911 etc.

    As for the end of piracy... I really doubt it. It's always been cat & mouse.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
  12. __hollywood|meo

    __hollywood|meo Ancient Guru

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    i used that phrase as a euphemism for piracy at large. its been prolific since the 90s. i was also kind of implying the popular recent trend of buying, then returning an item. this specifically happened cos of demos disappearing. that affects your reply to my previous statements quite a bit so ill refrain from responding to em.

    youre right about steam tho. the aspect of that point that you didnt bring up is that valve threw money & tons of devs into it (lets not forget it was a ****ing mess for over a year) & eventually it worked. they only succeeded from a combination of a "perfect storm" of factors converging upon them out of sheer happenstance, & thats coming from a huge valve fan. they had unlimited funds & manpower to refine & polish the code. they were the first company to even think of a centralized launch platform with integrated drm. very much to their credit they were willing to listen to feedback to add features & functionality to forge the platform into a real community resource, but again the only reason they were able to do so was their unlimited funds. & finally they were the first to recruit other devs to sell their games under this now robust software, so they cornered the market completely (& therefore were borderline obligated to develop it further)

    literally nobody else is going to be able to do wat valve did with steam. they are the exception that proves the rule. drm is bull**** not becos im a petulant child who wants something for free - but on principle of its existence. its like 2nd amendment advocates displeased with a new gun law. whether concrete like an intrusive rootkit, or on principle otherwise, it stems from criminal behavior but ends up punishing people who arent even breaking the law.

    if youre interested in the legal aspect go look up my rant on [H]
     
  13. Enticles

    Enticles Master Guru

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    whatever happened to shareware demos? xD
     
  14. WhiteLightning

    WhiteLightning Don Illuminati Staff Member

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    they got cracked
     
  15. nhlkoho

    nhlkoho Ancient Guru

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    Games these days are about the same length as shareware was years ago.

    Plus some companies were stupid and put the full game on the discs and you just needed a code to unlock the full game. Quake 1 for example.
     

  16. Eleventeen

    Eleventeen Member

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    This is bunk propaganda most likely paid for by Denuvo.

    3DM is a garbage and isn't even a real proper cracking group. They are more so a re-release group, they just tag and handle compression/uploads/steal other people's cracks and rebrand them. They do no real work. They aren't even recognized by anyone who cares: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_warez_groups

    I don't believe they cracked DAI, at least they certainly didn't do it first. I haven't seen any decent game they have ever cracked first and while I don't pirate games anymore i still like to keep up to date on what's happening.
    CPY cracked dragon age inquisition, and skidrow has cracked tons of other recent releases including denuvo, and they haven't had a hard time doing it, many were done day 0 or earlier.

    Sure JC3 may have a new version that will take a while to figure out, but once its done all other games with the same version will fall in days. And it will take denuvo months to figure out a new way.

    It's and endless war. It will never end.

    The only uncrackable drm is when the data is not stored locally. And that's the kind of DRM we pc gamers hate and won't stand for, for single player games, so it wont happen anytime soon.

    Piracy has become less of a problem and will continue to become less and less and yes some titles won't get cracked.

    It's not purely because the drm is better.

    It's because pc gamer is becoming better.

    A huge part of the reason is the core group of gamers are getting older, getting jobs and being able to afford all the games they want and then some. Especially these days with insane steam sales and mega cheap games. Piracy was rampant in he 90s and 00s in part because prices were unfair. They are pretty fair these days, so people are much more willing to shell out a few bucks even if only for the convenience of a faster download speed from steam/gog.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2016
  17. Eleventeen

    Eleventeen Member

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    heh the quake shareware cd was even better than that:

    It had the full version of every id game on it released up to that point (Doom1,2,wolfenstein, etc)

    To unlock them you had a to call a 1-800 number and pay with your credit card (internet existed, but the idea of online commerce for video games was years off).

    But given the key encryption was really weak, it was quickly cracked. So yea you could buy 1 shareware disk and get id software's full lineup for a few bucks heh.

    I remember my brothers friend came over one night with a cd and a floppy disk with the keygen showing me how its done. Goood ol' days heh.

    I don't think it was so much taht id was stupid, it's just that they have always been more trusting in the end user then other companies. They know they have a good product, so they wanted it to be convenient. Instant access via their method, where most other ones you had to sent off some mail order and wait weeks to get your game.

    Plus the guys who bought id, bethesda have pretty much the same great attitude towards drm: They know their products are worth it, so they do none or the bare minimum.
    EG:
    Original Oblivion disks were released 100% drm free. Didn't even have a cd check. I think they were the first triple a DVD/CD game to do that.
    (Later releases like the goty have a basic cd check, but it's easily removed by patching - no cracks needed)

    Plus none of their dlc for any of their games is ever drm'd/encrypted. (Vs say mass effect drm, stupid user-unfriendly drm'd like mad)
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2016
  18. Hughesy

    Hughesy Master Guru

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    Yes and why is that? Due to piracy. There's a huge market for PC games, but due to such a high piracy rate they don't sell as many as they should.
     
  19. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    I think two things have happened which I like:

    1) removal of piracy will mean their excuses for charging the amount they do is removed, so games will reduce in price or no one will buy them. In other words, there will no excuses.

    2) refunds on steam.

    These two things make me happy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2016
  20. YQ4869

    YQ4869 New Member

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    As a Chinese, this news just make me feels a lot.
    First of all, I am surprised that a small China’s crack group will be so famous,and maybe you don’t know that this 3DM group is allways in the controversy area in china’s forum.
    As for” there is no more cracked games”,that actually don’t make a lots of differents.
    For example,In china,computer hardware is not cheap,if somebody can afford to buy a computer that able to run 3A games ,it don’t seems like he lack the money to buy games. besides every one knows that download cracked game is not right,we are just looking for all kinds of excuses to download them,such as pings problems or don’t have a chinese edition or is hard to buy them or etc.But in face,with the development of game shops like origin and steam ,this problems has long gone.and ,yes,most of the playes has already established concepts to buy genuine game(at least most of the people I have seen are doing well, after all, who do not want to enjoy the genuine games with good service)games can not be cracked is just the final judgment of those don’t went to pay for games.
    BTW, I am very curious that if the cracked games have there own audiences in other countrys,will foreign players download cracked game?
    My mother tongue is not English, type this lot of word is nearly killing me,and I have try me best to make it less in grammatical error,hope you can understand my word,oh in addition, this news is also a hot topic in China haha
     

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