No more cracked games in two years ?

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jan 7, 2016.

  1. Solfaur

    Solfaur Ancient Guru

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    I don't know what to say about this, other than I will buy good games regardless of what DRM they use, but hell, some of my all-time favorite games (Witcher 2&3) use no DRM at all, and they still did good sales wise.

    ****ty games I simply ignore, and don't even bother installing the "free" version of the garbage anymore. It must have been something like ~6-7 years since I last pirated a game.

    I realize there is more going on, if this ever came true, but I actually doubt that there won't be a way to crack even the most advanced future DRM.
     
  2. __hollywood|meo

    __hollywood|meo Ancient Guru

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    just read the entire thread, wall of text incoming :wanker:
    yes, thats right. the drm itself is strongly encrypted, & id bet good money the codebase the encryption is protecting isnt all that impressive

    youre exactly right. this touches on the issue of delusional publishers claiming that one download = one lost sale

    disclaimer: i dont use warez so i have no personal stake in this, but dial yourself back a little bit. this forum is supposed to be an enclave for enthusiast gamers, & guess wat? it turns out that a fair share of technologically proficient folks are pirates, gray or black hats, hackers, crackers, even some little script kiddies...you name it. guru3d has its long-standing rep from professional in depth reviews; its forums are well moderated, & your ethically-based judgements of members of its community have little bearing as long as we all conduct ourselves in an adult manner.

    pc games make more than all consoles combined. youre right about folks not being trustworthy, tho

    nah demos dried up when publishers noticed that they actually hurt sales & also split coders focus from QA in the final dev stages.
     
  3. WhiteLightning

    WhiteLightning Don Illuminati Staff Member

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    What do you mean ?
     
  4. Kaarme

    Kaarme Ancient Guru

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    Isn't your claim just as delusional as the publishers'? If piracy was somehow stopped and the sales went up 25% (case by case for the more known titles), it would be quite a win already for the publishers. 75% would then supposedly stick to replaying their existing aging games, simple free games from the internets, or find a new hobby that doesn't cost them a single buck. Dunno what that would be, though, since even jogging requires decent shoes or you'll ruin your feet. All this ignoring the fact they mysteriously could afford to buy a gaming capable PC.

    We had in this very thread a post by someone telling he has buddies who make very decent money a year, yet refuse to buy any software. If they had no option but to buy, you think they would still say screw you guys, I'm going home instead of buying the games they want to play, despite easily having the money to do it? Many people pirate games because they can do it safely at home, with zilch chance of getting into any trouble. Just like it's so easy to anonymously insult people online as opposed to walking up to some tough looking guy downtown and telling him he looks like a loser.
     

  5. Black_ice_Spain

    Black_ice_Spain Ancient Guru

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    they don't, only Russia.

    EU is not a single country. In fact UK has cheaper prices than other countries, I remember a few years back where we always bought games @ amazon uk


    Plus buying russian keys is in the line of pirating, breaks contracts I think :nerd:

    or they can just wait 1year and buy games for <15 €
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
  6. slyphnier

    slyphnier Master Guru

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    the harder it to crack, more interesting it will be
    so it might invite more cracker by itself

    anyway human-made, nothing perfect
    so i dont think that there will be ultimate-uncrackable-security

    on other hand, i think abit different than 3DM person
    there might no more cracked/pirated game in 2years not because its not crackable
    but more people buy the game instead as u can get game cheaper and more easy nowdays ... steam selling rate based country currency, then there are humblebundle g2a etc.
    thus less people interest in pirated version, which also make less people crack the game
     
  7. Koniakki

    Koniakki Ancient Guru

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    Personally I know that people will do whatever they want and its not 'cause they lack of morality but many times that is because the lack of sensible choices.

    So when more publishers/developers/companies offer us more sensible choices price/content wise to "guide" the consumer/gamers to the "right" direction/decision, it would a big step forward for them instead of looking for a scapegoat.


    Key word here: "Just". You weren't here when posts were getting deleted by the mods and we were getting infraction warnings by the them too.

    And yes they were "well moderated" after you found the thread. :thumbup:
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
  8. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    But these two issues are separate. I agree that game developers should offer more content for the price but that doesn't give people the right to pirate the game because they feel like the content doesn't live up to their sense of value.

    And yeah, I get in the past that DRM was extremely intrusive and had adverse effects on performance. But Denuvo has shown to do neither. In my opinion it's the DRM that gamers should want.
     
  9. __hollywood|meo

    __hollywood|meo Ancient Guru

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    people are crap in general? i snipped part of his post out that gives that some context. he was saying some devs like projekt red dont use drm - they are trusting - but people arent trustworthy. he then suggested that drm only exists cos of piracy, which i disagree with, but thats neither here nor there.

    id love it if you could qualify that somehow, cos the rest of your post doesnt...& im confused as to your train of thought. no offense intended, i honestly dont understand. do you think that if a magic piracy-eradicating wand was waved, sales would actually jump ~25% across the board?

    i indeed did not see the ****posting. i posted at the beginning of the thread without monitoring it. pls accept my apology
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
  10. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Is one download = one lost sale? Probably not, no. But how do you quantify it then? Your saying it's not 25%, is it 10? 5? There literally is zero way to accurately quantify it because even if you asked people they'll just say "No, I never intended to buy it". But it's obviously some number above 0%.
     

  11. __hollywood|meo

    __hollywood|meo Ancient Guru

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    youre right, theres no way to extrapolate accurately. youre certainly correct to say its above zero...yet id be utterly shocked if it was above single digits. why assume piracy has a significant effect on sales of ANY media when wat little concrete evidence we have, & a whole lot of anecdotal "evidence", testifies that its negligible? try before you buy type shopping has been going on for wat over twenty years now? is the industry still okay? wait, record profits that increase every year? oh.
     
  12. Backstabak

    Backstabak Master Guru

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    Yeah a few years ago UBI switched from no DRM to always online DRM that was unbroken for quite some time. Did they get more sales on PC or anywhere else ?

    Nope.

    http://www.pcgamer.com/opinion-ubisoft-piracy-and-the-death-of-reason/
     
  13. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    In try before you buy type shopping you don't get to keep the item after you try it. And I guess I don't really disagree with you -- I think that companies definitely overstate piracy's effect on sales and stuff. But what exactly is wrong with something like Denuvo? Like what is the argument against having it? You're saying you want try before you buy -- but isn't that up to the company to give that to you? By downloading the game your basically taking that decision away from the company that's developing it. I'm not sure that's fair either.

    How do you know they wouldn't have gotten even less sales without it?

    Like I think its ok to be unhappy with the way Ubisoft's method of DRM has been going. I think it's OK to be unhappy with their games in general or the fact there are no demos or ways to try the game out before you buy it. But I don't think that gives people a right to just download the game and play it.

    I also think that gamers in general tend to understate the piracy problem. I was on this forum when Crysis came out and there were multiple people who pirated that game just to see the graphics, like people just talked about it openly. Then why Crytek mentioned the piracy problem and people **** the bed about how the game was too demanding for their rigs. But that didn't stop any of them from downloading it anyway, despite the fact their was a demo for the game.

    To me Denuvo is like the perfect solution. It shuts companies up from crying about lost sales and it kinda shuts gamers up about DRM intrusion. I kinda hope no one cracks it -- it works for me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
  14. Prince Valiant

    Prince Valiant Master Guru

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    If used sales aren't the problem, it's piracy, if piracy isn't the problem, it's something else. Any one of these publishers could easily prove their claims; apparently finger pointing and throwing tantrums about their failures is more effective. The important part is that the fault never lies with the publisher.

    I'm not saying piracy is a non-issue here, only that the publishers are the only ones that can provide accurate data and they're choosing to do just about anything instead of providing evidence for a non-bias analysis.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
  15. Backstabak

    Backstabak Master Guru

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    Yeah such a coincidence that right after they start using an obstructive DRM they get 90% drop in sales. But hey it must be pirates again.

    Now I'm not saying that pirating is something good, but don't use the old and totally wrong presumptions that without pirating sales would be higher, they woun't. As games are generaly too expensive for most of the world and often offer really bad quality that is also obsured by many of the lies in the "reviews", plus there are no demos.

    Yet if the game is good it always sells well. Look at the witcher 3, it has no DRM and it sold a lot because it is a good game.

    Oh and Denuvo will get cracked, it is quite inevitable. It's just really presumptious to thing that a few people doing it in their spare time could crack in a few weeks something that took thousands of manhours and milions of dollars to make.
     

  16. INSTG8R

    INSTG8R Ancient Guru

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    LOL! and I was remembering Starforce ;)
     
  17. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    So you admit the fact that it's intrusive is the reason for the impacted sales? Denuvo is not intrusive so I don't see the point then.

    And the evidence can't be concrete in either direction as far as piracy effecting sales. You can make the claim that it increased sales because the game has wider coverage. But you can't effectively prove that. It's not possible. The bottom line is that the developer and publisher of the game are ultimately responsible for it's distribution. If it chooses to sell the game at $5 or whatever, good for them. If it chooses to sell the game at $100, it's a bummer but that still doesn't give me the right to pirate it. Your effectively robbing that company of that choice. I don't care if you can't afford it. I can't afford lots of things, I don't go and steal them. Physical or digital it's still a monetary loss to the company and it's still "stealing" the ability of the company to make that decision itself.

    If consumers simply stopped buying bad products, early access garbage, $15 map packs and other crap, it would stop. But no, instead they either do buy it -- or they pirate it under the guise that it's justified because the game is crap or they can't afford it and they wouldn't have bought it anyway, or it's only a digital good and their is no "theft". It's all a bunch of nonsense and honestly Denuvo kind of proves that. Researching it over the past few days -- there are hundreds of posts of people complaining that it's uncrackable and bad for the industry and not a single person can say why. The answer is simple, because those people want the game for free and they can't have it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
  18. MaXThReAT

    MaXThReAT Master Guru

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    I think it's bad because people have a tendency to defend their purchases of crappy games, not to mention paid reviews and such.
     
  19. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    I mean people are going to defend their purchases regardless and most of it is going to come down to preference. People on this forum say Fallout 4 is a crappy game. Yet I know tons of people who admit there was some bugs, but overall really enjoyed it.

    Paid reviews are bad, yeah. But again that doesn't give someone the right to pirate the game to "try it out". This isn't even to mention that nearly every digital distribution service now has refunding options. So basically the entire "try before you buy" argument goes out the window for the majority of titles.
     
  20. Backstabak

    Backstabak Master Guru

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    As I said it in the post above, I'm not defending piracy. My point is that piracy is in no way a monetary loss for a company as that article I posted actually proves with UBI's CEO stateman. Because publishers just don't provide good enough service for the money the're asking and they would never be able to sell the product to the pirate. To actually stop piracy publishers just have to offer a good product and customer support.

    Look at the steam http://www.pcgamer.com/gabe-newell-on-piracy-and-steams-success-in-russia/

    Instead of shoving more DRM they just made the games more available and offered good customers support so that most people just woun't bother with pirating anything.
     

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