Next gen Playstation to get 8-core Zen2, Navi and 8K Support

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Apr 17, 2019.

  1. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    So you keep saying the fan noise, but there isn't any review out there for the Radeon VII that confirms that much noise... Blower style coolers can be loud, but again Polaris and Vega were platforms made for tweaking to eliminate this even with blower style cards. There are a ton of guides that shows you how to do this.

    As far as mobile products go, GCN is not a product made for mobile nor was it ever. Did you see any full Fermi mobile cards? No. Whether Navi will fix this or not, who knows. I'll believe it when I see it.

    For the 1080 Ti, Radeon VII in general performance matches it. In media creation and content editing though, Radeon VII easily has that over it thanks to the 16gb Vram and bandwidth available. Different use case scenario. But the 1080 Ti is a hard card to beat, the 2080 is in the same boat. High end Pascal is a very hard platform to beat. But Nvidia has said nothing about 7nm, so saying stuff like that makes no real sense.
    You would have to run your card 24/7 at that wattage to notice any difference on your electric bill. Now in third world areas where power is not cheap, this could be a problem easily. But in most areas around the world energy is cheap to the point where this is not going to make a dent in the average electric bill.
     
  2. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Some people use their pc's as lower power space heaters during winter :p
     
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  3. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    That's why I had an FX 9590 lol. In the winter, that was a nice little space heater. Funny thing is, there actually were some bitcoin miners that were also marketed and doubled as space heaters.
     
  4. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    Damn its not like we are living in the third world countries. We spend 100$ on games every couple of weeks let alone a year. I hear you tho but i still feel people are making big deal about it.
     

  5. nhlkoho

    nhlkoho Ancient Guru

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    Right but Sony didn't say that. Instead they'll just throw some misleading details out there and get people to think that the hardware inside this will be some generational leap above the PS4 pro. I highly doubt it
     
  6. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    Something to think about though in the realm of consoles where you're going to be sitting a decent distance away from your TV, you aren't going to notice that it's not full 8k. Most console players do not now, and I would say even me playing my Xbox I don't notice it's not full 4k or HD for that matter. Now if I sit infront of it it's easy to notice. But post processing alone helps mask this.

    Yet this is not true.
    https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/electricity-rates-around-the-world.html
    Being good or bad for the environment is irrelevant in this case, as the argument was pricing of electricity and not the after affects of it. But also considering a number of areas are using alternative energy sources as well, environmental affects still are not all that bad.

    But again, the 1080 Ti does not beat the Radeon VII.
    https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2397?vs=2140
    Older titles that do not use compute performance you will notice a difference definitely, but typically difference is small. Mind you as well, these are results where the Radeon VII has not been power and performance optimized.
    https://www.Disney.net/guides/3450-amd-radeon-vii-powerplay-overclocking-results-liquid-cooling-mod (change disney to gamers nexus with no space lol)
    As far as overclocking goes, this is what you can expect for Radeon VII overclocking. For the 1080 Ti now,
    https://www.pcgamer.com/geforce-gtx-1080-ti-overclocking/

    The Radeon VII after overclocking has more headroom for performance vs the 1080 Ti, and is going to still get driver optimizations.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  7. slicer

    slicer Member Guru

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    My Vega64 is overclocked not underclocked..... it is also undervolted. It is an ex-mining card, but with warranty, so I am covered.
    With AMD you actually need to undervolt and it automatically boosts higher. Different than Nvidia overclocking, there You add volts and add clocks. With AMD card You undervolt and add clocks. Seems whichcraft to Nvidia owner.
    I don't buy overpriced crap from anybody, that enables the greedy company even further... so buying expensive new crap- not my thing. If I am gona buy it new, then it should be worth the money. In Turing lineup, maybe RTX2060 or GTX1660 is worth its money.

    Also You are comparing brand new RTX2060 to 1.5 year old Vega56?

    AMD is 1/10 the size of Nvidia and they dont have luxury do R&D separate die's for consumer and prouser, thats why the are using compute gpu's in their consumer cards.
    The biggest mistake has been the use of HBM memory modules. For companys who buy such expensive cards - it is not a big deal, but HBM for consumer is pointless as it upps the price 3x times.
    They would have had to develop a second process node for Vega die to be compatible with gddr5x etc. That means 300mln euros in development cost alone... for Nvidia that is pocket change. For AMD that would have been the entire operating income of the entire 2017 year.
    So they used 1 mold for their entire lineup.
    They are changing that with Navi tough, thats why half the prices with Vega64+ performance cards. No HBM anymore in consumer oriented cards.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
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  8. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Third world and such is a matter of perspective, i don't happen to live i the USA, but i know people who do and barely manage to get by with their health and food costs because the wage hasn't followed inflation / growth scale.
     
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  9. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Are you seriously trying to establish this as premise for any argument? And do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you write it?
    AMD's drivers are great for many years.

    Well, most of your posts in this thread looks like you believe in a lot of things which are not true. You repeat some things I have seen before on many places... about HD 7970/Fury(X). I did have both and you do not know a thing.
    7970 came with 195W power limit and that's what it ate. Later limits were raised to 205/225W.
    Fury X came with 300W power limit and quite higher than needed voltage. Any OC attempts done by inexperienced overclockers resulted in card hitting power limits. (Keeping clock they set up, but running empty cycles.) ...resulting in lower than stock performance. Some which could call themselves amateurs manages to move power slider in OC tool, but that was just 1 out of 3 different limits card had for power draw. My Fury X performed quite better than stock one without any GPU OC. It took only little tuning of HBM timings, undervolting and bumping power limits in vBIOS.
    When it went away form me, it ate 250W under full load and performed quite better than stock one. (And same can be told about HD7970.)

    There is this quote of yours: "Lisa Su probably still thinks Fury X is an overclockers dream tho..."
    That card separated overclockers from posers. And quite a few tech sites proven to be quite amateurish in their handling of the cards.
     
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  10. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    lets not use the launch drivers argument, nvidia hasn't had the best of runs with recent "open beta" vs "release" drivers, optimizing against a moving target has its issues.

    I'll say this though, we do need new console hardware out, preferrably with nvme as base storage.
     

  11. slicer

    slicer Member Guru

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    I would say that GTX1080Ti is good in some older games, but VII is definetly better in newer games.

    Heck even Vega56 is competing with GTX1080.
    Fresh video from Steve @HardwareUnboxed

    Vega56 vs GTX1070 vs GTX1070Ti vs GTX1080
     
  12. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    I already asked but can you not double post @las ?

    Drivers for years have been stable for AMD, any arguments on this have been easily proven false. Major release drivers have not been much an issue on either platform(aside from Geforce Experience, but that's a whole different topic). Nvidia does not always have launch drivers ready as well, saying things like this just kind of seem like you're spouting this just to spout it...

    Also again, the Radeon VII and 1080Ti are pretty matched. I even posted a source for you.

    For mining cards, generally mining cards are taken care of better than cards used to play games. Mining farms keep them clean, keep them optimized, they undervolt and underclock to keep lower temperatures and power draw, and they're in a very clean environment. While gamers put load on, take load off, put load on, take load off, going from different voltage offsets over and over is more damaging to a card than running at a constant even if it's higher over time.

    You keep repeating the same thing over and over though, with no source, no real background behind it, nothing new though.
     
  13. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    To Bold: Well, I would call Fury X an flagship card and it was quietest card I ever had from any camp.
    To underlined: Are you talking about AMD's future products based on architecture you know nothing about? When was it last time you actually fine tuned AMD's card? My current Polaris RX-580 eats 135~145W under full gaming load, maxes out at 63 degrees Celsius and is relatively quiet. That GPU alone can be easily used in mobile devices. Polaris around 1250MHz could fit into 95W TDP. And lovely part about AMD's vBIOS design is that their cards do adhere to their power limits in very brutal way. (It is actually thing I quite disliked about AMD's A10-78X0K APUs... their 95W limit which was not enough for both iGPU and CPU part... resulting in CPU downclock when GPU was fully utilized.)
     
  14. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    Developers have nothing to do with drivers, that's Nvidia and AMD. Typically when major game releases are out, both will put out optimized drivers(even if not at launch).
    And that's fine if you don't want to buy a mining card, no one is forcing you to. But don't spread misinformation about it.
    And over and over I've gone over the market share. If you choose to ignore that, that's fine, but don't ask about it if you aren't going to listen.

    Final warning for you too, do not double post. Edit your post into one post.

    And seeing at this point this is pure fanboyism and not going anywhere we are going to cut this discussion now. I will also take fault with this conversation but back on topic to the PS5. Any posts regarding AMD vs Nvidia at this point will be given points.
     
  15. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    Might of been 8 core but it was a jaguar chip I think was we all know was bad and think of this way that cpu had less raw power then the cell chip the ps3 used which was also 8 core . there is an article that was shown that ps4 cpu was less powerfull then ps3 cell chip if you search google. im sure I posted about that few time in console section with links it probably buried though.


    the cpu was barely used cause the dev offload most the work to gpu which was more powerful then the cpu, only the pro and xbox one x have cpu that were actual more more powerfull then cell chip the ps3 used.

    I am hyped about this ps5. The sold me when they said it will run ps4 games, now if only they could ad PS3/2/1 games too bonus being SSD too! though I didnt know it was "special" ssd with bigger bandwidth though i not sure how well that will bold for replacing the drive.

    8k might be "supported" but there is no way it gona do 8k at 30fps let alone 60fps with out make the game use textures from 2000's 800+ gpu barely push 4k @ 60fps. I curious to were the gona price it though. I hoping the charge the price of ps4 pro and drop the drop price to base ps4 price, probably wishful thinking
     

  16. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    There are specific points where there were long term issues with the amd drivers that didn't appear with nvidia's,

    R200 and 300 parts had a random crash issue with FFXIV_DX11 (Device Hung/Reset), Earlier drivers had an unresolved memory leak that only affected the DX9 client
    More recently AMD were switching between crashing opengl and incorrect rendering for a dual source blending extension, they traded between these two states for about 2 years and didn't do too good a job at communicating that they were validating a final fix for both issues (or that it would take half a year to do it).

    But I accept you can argue the same with nvidia's drivers, they seem to be more affected by UDK's device hung issue more than AMD's drivers, they also have a lot more on the line when it comes to developers writing poor DirectX code as the machine code recompiler on one line of nvidia parts can behave differently to the next parts.

    AMD's drivers don't handle npot dimensions well at all in DX11 titles (app crash), where as nvidia's don't have a problem with no crashing or rendering anomalies.
    nvidia until turing didn't handle fast packed math or async compute that well at all.

    AMD gave up on driver command lists for DX11, nvidia supports it - and looping back to the directx code.... code quality and covering all bases can mean the difference between device hung or performance improvements.
     
  17. Yxskaft

    Yxskaft Maha Guru

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    Jaguar was slow already at release, and even a pure 1.6 Ghz 8C/8T Ryzen 2 replacement should be alot faster. When you consider that the studios have still managed to get games like BF5 and Red Dead Redemption 2 running on those weak Jaguar CPUs, I'm thrilled about seeing what they will be able to do with Ryzen 2.

    It looks like the PS5 will bring a painful upgrade period for PC users though, whereas PCs with i5 750 and Phenom II X4 could still compete favorably with the PS4 by just getting a better graphics card.
     
  18. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    in computer terms, yes, but console targetted games have the benefit of direct metal programming and engine sdks that already enable it for studio's who don't have that level of experience.

    There are quite a lot of ways you can cheat the limitations of a console that you can't do on pc.
     
  19. sammarbella

    sammarbella Ancient Guru

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    Gimmicks.

    All i want from Sony is another console GEN with awesome exclusive games.

    If Bloodborne 2 is a PS5 launch title Sony has my money...

    ...ON PRE ORDER!
     
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  20. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    Like said in consoles terms even with it closer to "metal" the ps4 cpu was slower and had less raw power then the cell cpu

    http://www.redgamingtech.com/ubisoft-gdc-presentation-of-ps4-x1-gpu-cpu-performance/

    This was one the test that showed this, there were others, there whole article dedicated to this, Pro and Xbox One X and Xbox One ( barely ) only consoles that had more power full cpu majority of work this gen was offload to gpu not the cpu, if it was on on cpu thing would look and ran much worse. which why it offload to the gpu

    Polishing a turd and make it shining dont make it anyless of a turd. and ps4/xbox one cpu were turds imo
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019

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