Next-gen AMD EPYC (Genoa) Would get 50% larger socket SP5, 96 cores and 400W TDP

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Mar 1, 2021.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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  2. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    I get that when server has 50% more cores, it can benefit from 50% higher memory bandwidth.
    But was not DDR5 supposed to deliver higher bandwidth by itself?

    What would be speculated use of 12 memory channels + extra bandwidth per channel? (Conspiracy theory about drastic increase in Zen4 IPC or EPYC all core boost clock.)
     
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  3. Evildead666

    Evildead666 Maha Guru

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    Extra bandwidth available from PCIE5 devices would be my idea.

    PCIE4 was pretty power hungry compared to PCIE3, and PCIE5 will be no different.
    High frequencies will require more power for the moment, until it gets optimized, and maybe a lithography shrink (if that helps).

    I was more expecting the CCX's to go to 12 cores rather than the extra chiplets.
    Then again, with the increase in pin count, and overall 'chip' size, they would have the room.

    12 memory channels/PCIE5 would mean a new IO die as well.
     
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  4. Bitey

    Bitey Member

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    more cores means the requirement for more independent mermory channels goes up for latency reasons and a new socket has to have the legs for quite a few years so a bit overkill now is barely adequate when the socket dies
     
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  5. bnauk

    bnauk New Member

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    400W? So, matching the next gen 8 core Intel desktop CPU then. This is fine
     
  6. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    It will support AVX3-512 instructions.
     
  7. Fediuld

    Fediuld Master Guru

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    Yep with a 96 core CPU :D
     
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  8. marashz

    marashz New Member

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    And Intel only with 8 core :D
     
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  9. Robson

    Robson New Member

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    No, it's not mainboard it's a socket. :eek:

    I never understand why DDR5 is coming, DDR6 has been for years.
     
  10. kakiharaFRS

    kakiharaFRS Master Guru

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    I've seen what 400W on a cpu does with an oc threadripper, it's unusable unless it's in an air-conditioned room, which ok it's a server part but just saying
    I had 38°C ambient temp at the end of my overclocking shenanigans :eek:
     

  11. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Ancient Guru

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    Except that on server side, usually the CPUs respect the TDP as maximum power.
     
  12. TLD LARS

    TLD LARS Member Guru

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    400W Epic is still a lot less heat then a 4 socket full of 24 core Xeons with maybe a TDP of 800-1000W instead, to be able to keep op with this monster.

    The reason for the needed 12 channel memory previous mentioned, could be because DDR 5 needs to be 4500 or something like that, to beat a good DDR4 3200 kit.
    Every memory jump until now have had overlapping performance, next generation mostly needs multible months with new module releases, before they begin to perform faster then last generation.
     
  13. 386SX

    386SX Maha Guru

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    12 channel memory.
    96 cores / 192 threads
    160 pcie lanes
    400W TDP ....

    ... in one single package.

    I would like to see Noctua to build an air cooler for that. :D
     
  14. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    400W for 96 of those cores is nothing. As a server chip of course they have to go for very good performance per watt since that's a key selling point, but I just like thinking about what kind of monster chips they could design if they went for just raw power, the limit before a big falloff / massively diminishing returns. You'd still probably not need one of those industrial chillers which Intel uses to lie to the public about their products.

    Btw Intel, how go your server chips?
     
  15. Nero1024

    Nero1024 Member

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    I think you have misstaken GDDR6 for DDR6, they are not the same
     

  16. nosirrahx

    nosirrahx Master Guru

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    64/8 = 96/12
     
  17. Mundosold

    Mundosold Master Guru

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    the heatsink would be so big it would double as the case, and you would use a Noctua brand Walmart-style $20 box fan with it (colored mocha/tan as always)
     
  18. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Yeah. And? Like that would be part of one sentence I wrote. And Ignoring the rest.

    One DDR5 has much higher bandwidth by itself than One DDR4.
    When you increase number of memory banks by 50%, and bandwidth each memory bank provides by 40%. How much more bandwidth you get?
    And you are getting this increase while adding only 50% more cores.

    So, either AMD is future proofing socket a lot. Or Zen4 can actually process data quite faster than Zen3.
     
  19. JamesSneed

    JamesSneed Maha Guru

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    The first chips of the next generation of DDR usually are not much improvement if any at all. Sure the frequency is higher but the latency is as well so realized bandwidth doesn't move much. This is why I never get excited about a new DDR generation a least not the first iteration. In 2-3 years DDR5 will far surpass DDR4 but that will not be the case at first.
     
  20. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    You wrote a lot. And you are not wrong. But ignored elephant in the room I was pointing on entire time.

    Do you have estimation on initial available bandwidth change from SP4 to SP5 socket CPU per core, when we say that SP4 has top chip with 64 cores and SP5 has top chip with 96 cores?
    No need to write bandwidths. Just multiplier, percentage or ratio will be enough.
    And do you have estimation on this change in 2~3 years when DDR5 mature?
     

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