New Upcoming ATI/AMD GPU's Thread: Leaks, Hopes & Aftermarket GPU's

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon' started by OnnA, Jul 9, 2016.

  1. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    They do have some improvements allowing for some pretty impressive performance figures especially when overclocked though yeah they don't have quite the hardware that Fiji has.
    GCN might be just about tapped out too though if what AMD mentioned with the 7000 series GPU's holds true and Fiji and Vega have mostly been tweaks to the design although HBM and the increased clock speed of Vega has allowed for it to remain pretty competitive even so although not without drawbacks such as how AMD is heavily overvolting and overclocking the Vega GPU's compared to the original specs IE instead of 1.2v 800Mhz HBM it's running at 1.35v 950Mhz and the original was supposed to be 1.2v 1000Mhz but that didn't happen.

    It does allow for undervolting the GPU's a fair bit though without lowering clock speeds too much, even the "lower" binned Fiji Fury GPU's can be undervolted nicely without dropping too much of the clock speed due to this. :)
    On the other hand they also don't overclock that much higher without seriously ramping up voltage and overall power usage and I doubt any of the custom Vega PCB's can do much over the stock versions let alone the water cooled 64 one.
    (Stock PBC is good though, blower cooler has some problems keeping it under the threshold when it boosts and there's the voltage limit too but still not bad results from a stock model.)

    Whatever AMD has planned for 2018 and the GDDR6 news might be the successor to the 500 Polaris GPU series, Navi will probably be the Vega successor but there might be a refresh first and who knows what that will bring, probably nothing too much but there's some for some improvements and maybe getting some of those announced features primed too although it's looking like primitive shaders, dsbc and some other stuff might not be doable for global use in everything and it'll either be per game or via AMD's driver profiles, could be wrong though but we'll see. :)

    I only really know what I'm reading up on these GPU's too so hard to tell what will happen and AMD is being mostly silent too on the matter, Nvidia is probably also readying up on whatever the next mainline consumer GPU's will be although I have no idea when a release can be expected, mid-2018 I would assume and a announcement or reveal earlier next year perhaps.



    EDIT:
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/11002/the-amd-vega-gpu-architecture-teaser/2
    Though it seems Vega might have tweaked the design a bit at least. :)
    Though it's still not the greatest at geometry but the discard function on this (And Polaris.) is one thing that ensures it's a bit better balanced than the Fiji GPU's currently. :)

    And then there's the whitepaper for Vega.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/6twjc7/some_insights_from_the_vega_whitepaper/

    And the status of it's current features.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/7jfrta/request_official_statement_about_dsbr_primitive/

    And more, it's pretty complex trying to understand some of these but I find it interesting too although reality is that Vega isn't performing too well currently (Or well it's the fastest AMD GPU even so.) but it's still managing to keep up against the 1080 at least though the availability and pricing is hurting sales too though the mining efficiency of the card still ensures it sells but for regular gamers availability and price is a problem.
    (Possibly even as a result of said mining performance and the GPU being very desirable for this purpose.)


    New driver releases might help balance things out in some of the current games where Vega is more heavily under performing compared to the hardware it has too, although I wouldn't put too much belief into primitive shader support or DSBR just yet until these have been more proven and tested (And enabled at all?) though we'll see.
    (Even if they can work on a global scale with everything overall gains might not be as AMD had initially hyped so that's also a important factor to consider.)


    So yeah it's a bit of a mess at the moment but we can do nothing but wait and see what newer drivers can do for the GPU and what AMD will reveal next, new generation Polaris, Vega refresh on 12nm+ or what it was or the full new Navi GPU perhaps.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
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  2. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    Bro, 290X and now 390X are the top notch of it's time 550USD as i recall.
    7970Ghz/280X 550USD -> 290X/390X 550USD -> Fiji HBM 649/475 -> VEGA HBM 389-489USD
    Those are Hi-End ATI GPUs, rest is Med/Low Gamer Ed. (480/580 included up to 289USD)

    If you want a replacement go invest in VEGA + FreeSync or wait for AIBs or 12nm VEGA v.2 (May-July/August?)
     
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  3. warlord

    warlord Guest

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    Well I guess you are right 390X was just before Fiji launch. That's why I always consider my GPU mid-range since 2015 summer.

    So do you think 2018 AMD will bring us a 680 or something little below Vega at price but faster than 580? That's what I look for. A card faster than 580 and cheaper than Vega to replace my 390X :)
     
  4. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    VEGA 56 is a way to go IMO -> There is No better GPU 8GB HBM for min. 3Yas of Gaming/Working
    Wait for AIBs & for some Promo -> sell 390X and you're Happy Man :p
     

  5. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Guest

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    Vega 56 is likely more than he wants to pay as well, what he would get for his 390X would likely only pay for about a quarter of Vega56.

    I'm a little out the loop, but after a quick search on an Aria (UK shop) they no longer list any Vega cards.
    If I Google "RX Vega Aria" there a links for cards, but all are showing as discontinued. I then checked OCUK and most cards are being listed as "New" and all for pre-order.
    After some confusion, I then remembered seeing (but never reading) news that AMD were to stop shipping reference cards, so assumed these are the new AiB cards.

    What's the pricing and stock like in other countries though, as there are none available here and the non reference Vega56's start at £550 while the 64's start at £650.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
  6. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Severe shortage and wildly varied pricing even for the '56 Vega models, there's still a few here listed for around 7000 SEK or some 830 USD after a quick Google currency conversion.
    They still sell out though, but there are also newer models at far more reasonable price levels but yeah those aren't going to be available anytime soon in any larger amounts.
    (Most stores here are out and showing late December or even January for new stock and it's likely still only smaller shipments plus with reference gone these third party models will likely keep prices high even for minor revisions of the cooler design.)

    EDIT: Ah looks like some stores are now selling off the last couple of reference models, might be possible to get a decent deal but supplies are very limited. :)

    IE
    https://new.webhallen.com/se/product/271748-Sapphire-RX-Vega-64-8GB-Black-21275-02-20G

    Some 564 Euro then but only 6 in stock so that's going to be gone soon.
    (666.50 USD.)

    Or the '56
    https://new.webhallen.com/se/product/274550-Sapphire-Radeon-RX-Vega-56-8GB-HBM2-21276-00-20G

    Also Sapphire, same price as the '64 if it hadn't been discounted - 6600 SEK. - so yeah they're popular enough to mark up prices like that.
    (And only 2 available both in separate shops that need to be picked up at location.)


    EDIT: Looks like there's 5x Strix Vega 64 from Asus now.
    https://new.webhallen.com/se/product/279949-ASUS-Radeon-RX-Vega-64-OC-8G

    Though yeah 8000 SEK or just around 800 Euro ha ha.
    (Some 950 USD.)

    Which well that let's you pick up a few 1080 Ti models that are around 7500 to 8000 SEK.
    https://new.webhallen.com/se/category/4684-GeForce-GTX-for-Gaming?f=text^1080 ti&sort=latest&page=3

    (Or add 200 some SEK more for a higher-clocked model though the more expensive ones exceed 9000 SEK.)


    So for gaming Vega is hard to sell or justify unless pricing comes down a bit which well if shortage ever stops being a issue maybe there's a chance. :)

    But price/performance ratio wise it's hard to justify these GPU's currently when the 1080 can exceed it with some overclocking to say little of the 1080Ti which is even faster so if the non-discount prices are going to be in the range of this GPU (Or above for the third party Vega models.) then that's going to be a problem for AMD.

    Or maybe not, apparently the GPU's still sell out though with the limited available stock total sales are probably not all that high yet although this is just from comparing one single store. :)

    But from what I have heard and read it's similar in many other places in Europe at least with limited availability and higher retail prices.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
  7. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Guest

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    Thanks for checking.

    I'm assuming that the partners are paying AMD quite abit for each chip then.
     
  8. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    The chips are probably more expensive and the varying plants for the memory and the differences in contact due to height differences might also hamper things a bit though I don't really know what models the current third party Vega cards use for their memory. (And I guess that the issue with the gap from the memory modules is still resolve via epoxy filling but not all chip manufacturers use this method.)

    Apple is also using Vega for some of their products I believe, new one was revealed a little while ago carrying 16 GB HBM2 modules if I remember the details correctly and then there's the issue with some of the stock being bought up before it reaches the actual retailers.

    Though I haven't found any real confirmation on that last point, trying to find those posts again. :)
     
  9. Evildead666

    Evildead666 Guest

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    Stangely, nothing at all in stock here, and the vega56 has completely dissappeared from some sites. i.e. Not one card listed with a Vega56.
    In fact, i am having a hard time finding ANY vega56's for sale, or preorder. Not found one yet.

    CDiscount has some Vega64's, but their prices are waaaaaay out of whack (up to 1900€ for the liquid cooled edition of Vega64/8GB...)
     
  10. Rich_Guy

    Rich_Guy Ancient Guru

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    AMD have EOL'd the reference cards, its only the custom ones you'll be able to get now, so will have to wait until they're released.

    OcUK have gotten a couple of the ref air 64s in, but they want £750 for em :eek: :D
     
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  11. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    That would be Vega 56, I believe.
     
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  12. Rich_Guy

    Rich_Guy Ancient Guru

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  13. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Wonder what the GTA V tests would look like without MSAA, granted 2x isn't that much but AMD's cards tend to have problems with this so a comparison with it disabled would be interesting.
    (For all GPU's of course to fairly compare against competing cards.)

    Though as expected it does pretty well but only a bit above the reference product. I'm not seeing any 1080 GPU's in that benchmark but I guess the 1070Ti is fairly close in terms of performance.

    EDIT: Uses a fair bit of power too, shouldn't throttle as badly due to power limits then but still doesn't scale all too well but might have more OC headroom though it might be required to strip out the air cooler for a liquid alternative for best results and avoiding or at least mitigating thermal throttling.
     
  14. pharma

    pharma Ancient Guru

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  15. Maddness

    Maddness Ancient Guru

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  16. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    Yup, and they don't even mention Chill + FS CaP + Enchanced Sync :D (and you have ~100-200tW then like 1080 easy)
    IMO this is Gaming GPU, not benchmark GPU ;)
     
  17. warlord

    warlord Guest

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    Well let's hope 2018 vega refresh will improve. AMD lost price performance ratio and efficiency. Both defeats. In my country 1080 gtx is cheaper than vega 56. I cannot find a reason anyone to buy AMD here. Not mentioning Vega 64, you could buy 1080 OC@11Gbps at that price. :(
     
  18. Rich_Guy

    Rich_Guy Ancient Guru

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  19. Rich_Guy

    Rich_Guy Ancient Guru

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  20. Maddness

    Maddness Ancient Guru

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    That's more like it.
     

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