New Upcoming ATI/AMD GPU's Thread: Leaks, Hopes & Aftermarket GPU's Part 2

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon' started by WhiteLightning, Sep 28, 2018.

  1. Maddness

    Maddness Maha Guru

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    Yep. First we will have 12nm Polaris this year. Early next year, we will have 7nm Vega for machine learning. Hopefully after that we will get a gaming version sometime 2nd half of 2019. Navi is supposed to be a midrange part released sometime 2020. At least that is what AMD have said so far.
     
  2. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    $999 for Small Creators without Big budget :D



    GJ AMD/ATI
     
  3. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Unfortunately, that guy really puts out only a lot of wishful thinking based on inconsistent train of thoughts. And apparently he ignored few important things.
    IIRC, Navi was originally planned as smaller chip 1st to satisfy masses. That means cost efficient and definitely well under $500. When using projections based on past information, one should consider all that is known and all that is unknown.

    Known is that Mainstream performance is around RX-570/580, that's price target. It is reasonable to think that this performance will be pushed up in given price range by 15~25% by Navi. That's unless upcoming 12nm Polaris does not deliver that 1st. Then Navi has no reason to exist there. (So it is important to check where actual 12nm Polaris lands.)
    In case Polaris hits that spot, Navi will be landing as mobile chip 1st due to extra value of power efficiency, or will really come as bigger chip, or will be delayed enough (around 12 months) to deliver another 15~25% performance above that 12nm Polaris.

    What is unknown: Navi for long time is supposed to be something else than GCN, but this is still uncertain till confirmed. This possibility means pretty wild improvements in performance per transistor for any of building blocks. Any software technology which came after 2011H1 into GCN was redesign, "glued in", and not implemented in most efficient way. New design should be fully DX12 oriented. Maybe even made to easily cut through heavy workloads like HBAO+.

    But for now, nVidia did not stir waters in market, so AMD does not have to change their lineup much. I'll draw my predictions (pessimistic - means RX-590 is real):
    - Release Date:
    -> 10% in 2019Q1
    -> 25% in 2019Q2
    -> 35% in 2019Q3
    -> 15% in 2019Q4
    -> 15% in 2020H1
    - Performance:
    -> if released in 2019Q1 => Replaces Vega 64 at better price point
    -> if released in 2019Q2 => Replaces Vega 64 at better price point
    -> if released in 2019Q3 => Replaces Vega 64 and Polaris 30 at better price point
    -> if released in 2019Q4+ => Replaces Vega 64 and Polaris 30 at better price point. Adds one additional performance tier above as 7nm should be capable and economical at that point.

    Now Optimistic: Lisa Su seems to be quite happy with 7nm progress:
    - If they have good yields => better price => bigger GPUs nearly as economical as 14nm => No reason not to make them.
    - If they clock better => 7nm power efficiency will not hold this clock improvement back => improved architecture * improved clock * increased number of building blocks => exponential increase in performance.
    - And apparent optimistic part: If above is the case => No reason to wait for nV to catch up => release schedule will be moved.

    So summary of effects:
    - Release of RX-590 => Bad for mainstream as Navi is not planned to replace it any time soon. (Return of investment would be poor.) Possibly good for High end as Navi may be successful enough architecture for AMD to make it bigger.
    - each quarter which has no Navi released means it will be less competitive and profitable... if Released in 2019Q4+, it can still be revolutionary architecture, but RTX will have 2nd generation.
    - Vega 7nm will tell us where Navi lands in terms of clocks, Navi will likely clock higher. Then we will see power efficiency. Navi will likely do better in that field too. But we will know in general Watts per transistor and clock. (1st mainstream generation ~140W, so next iteration can come as 160~180W with same silicon. High end ~220W. Enthusiast ~300W.)
    - Silent AMD... something that they learned with Ryzen... they were just happy with it and not overhypping it in contrast to throwing superlatives on minor step improvements in the past. I consider this silence a good sign.
    - Jan 2019 C.E.S. Breaks The Silence. Information will give shape to all speculations. Confirming, killing.
     
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  4. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    LOL, Youtube is down.
     

  5. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    Samsung Will Be Able to Reduce Its Production Cycle Using 7nm LPP EUV Thanks to the Addition of EUVL, Resulting in Better Chip Yields

    Samsung has sent out an announcement that it has started the production of chips using its 7nm LPP EUV technology. This process will include extreme ultraviolet lithography or EUVL for certain layers.

    The advantage here is that it will enable the Korean giant to increase the transistor density of these chips while optimizing their power consumption.
    This can potentially mean that the SoCs that are launched after the Exynos 9820 might be made on this technology, resulting in immediate battery life benefits while optimizing performance too.

    Samsung will be producing its 7nm LPP EUV chipsets at its S3 factory located in Hwaseong, South Korea. This process will be able to produce 1500 wafers daily with a 280W light source. This approach will help the manufacturer to obtain a 40 percent area reduction at the same complexity, a 50 percent lower power consumption at the same frequency and complexity, and a 20 performance boost using the same power and complexity. All of these differences are when you compare it with the previous-generation 10nm LPE technology.

    Also, the use of EUVL for select layers enables Samsung to place 40 percent more transistors inside its next-gen SoCs and reduce their power consumption.
    With battery technology having remained stagnant for several years, flagship smartphone chipsets boasting incredible efficiency will be highly beneficial when several users are aiming for a high battery endurance.

    While it is obvious that the Korean behemoth will be using this technology to fabricate its home-grown chipsets, Samsung did not disclose the name of other clients.
    However, it has been reported previously that Qualcomm plans to use this node for its 5G-capable Snapdragon SoCs. The chipset manufacturer has reportedly been working on its Snapdragon 865, which is said to feature a 5G modem that is embedded within the silicon.

    Samsung is also expected to massively increase EUV lithography usage, but that will most likely take place after another production line in Hwaseong, has been made.
    It is expected to cost 6 trillion Korean Won (approximately $4.615 billion), with projected completion expected in 2019, and production expected in 2020. Do note that it was quite a difficult step for Samsung to bring the EUV process to fruition as the technology is very complex.

    This requires brand new equipment that has been outfitted with new light sources, new chemicals, and a brand new infrastructure.
    This naturally took years to develop, but it certainly looks like Samsung is going to be reaping the rewards when it launches new products down the road.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    ASUS Readies Radeon RX 590 ROG STRIX Gaming Graphics Card –
    12nm Polaris Refresh With 8 Gbps Memory Launching Soon

    [​IMG]

    It seems like more rumors and details of AMD upcoming Radeon RX 590 graphics cards are coming in.
    This time, Videocardz has confirmed that ASUS is working on a custom variant of AMD’s upcoming Polaris Refresh GPU based graphics cards, using their ROG STRIX Gaming design scheme.

    ASUS Readies Radeon RX 590 ROG STRIX Gaming Graphics Cards – To Feature Polaris Refresh GPU With 8 Gbps Memory
    The rumors of a third Polaris GPU lineup have been floating for a while now. It was rumored that AMD was working on a Polaris Refresh GPU, known as Polaris 30,
    which would utilize the new 12nm process node to deliver enhanced efficiency and faster clock speeds. It was stated that the graphics cards would arrive sometime in Q4 2018 but we didn’t get any more details aside from the fact that it would be aimed at the mainstream gaming market.

    Now recently, more details have started to pop up with which have revealed the specifications and some minor details of the graphics card.
    In a previous leak which showed a 3DMark listing, the AMD Radeon RX 590 graphics card features a clock speed of 1545 MHz, 8 GB GDDR5 VRAM clocked at 2000 MHz or 8 Gbps and a slight performance advantage over the Radeon RX 580 at the same clocks.

    [​IMG]

    A listing of the AMD Radeon RX 590 graphics card, compared to the Radeon RX 580 which is overclocked to the same clock speeds as the upcoming Polaris refresh graphics card. (Image Credits: Tum Apisak)
    Now it’s not known whether the chip will feature the same core count as the Polaris 20 based Radeon RX 580 which comes with 2304 stream processors or a different GPU config.
    We know that the RX 580 and RX 480 have utilized the full Polaris configuration so the refresh should also feature the same core count, with some minor architectural and process improvements that would result in higher performance at a lower power draw.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
  7. G13Homi

    G13Homi Active Member

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  8. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    AMD has 7nm Navi GPU up and running in its lab

    7nm looks better than expected


    According to our sources, AMD already has its 7nm Navi-based graphics card up and running in its lab, and the 7nm GPU looks good.

    While it is clear that the Navi-based graphics card will launch in the second half of 2019, with the best scenario rumored to be the third quarter 2019, the good news is that the GPU is up and running in AMD labs.
    Of course, this is probably one of the early versions as AMD has still a long way before it has a final product ready, as there is a lot of work involved into bringing a new generation of graphics cards to the market.
    Our sources also suggested that the 7nm GPU looks better than expected. Unfortunately, our source did not go into specifics so we do not know if this means that yields are good or that the actual 7nm GPU is giving a performance/power consumption.
    Bear in mind that these are some of the first details coming regarding the 7nm Navi GPU, in addition to earlier rumors suggesting that we could see the GTX 1080 performance-level at $250 price range.

    Earlier information, which comes from a PCGamesn interview with the Senior Vice President of Engineering at AMD Radeon Technologies Group, David Wang, also suggested that AMD won't be using an MCM (Multi-Chip Module) approach, but rather a standard monolithic die design.

    Our sources are still adamant about the fact that the Navi GPU will target the mid-range graphics card market, so think of it as a successor to the Polaris GPU, rather than the Vega one.
    This could also mean that we won't see a high-end Navi GPU before early 2020.
    AMD will probably manage to keep a lot of pressure on Nvidia with the 12nm Polaris refresh, as the RX 580 is already putting a lot of pressure on the GTX 1060 in that market segment, especially in the performance per buck front.
    AMD's 7nm Navi is expected to be succeeded by 7nm+ next-gen architecture, recently rumored to be called Arcturus, but that comes in 2020 and after.

    Hopefully, more information regarding AMD's 7nm Navi GPU will show up as while AMD's Zen CPU architecture has certainly put a lot of pressure on Intel, lack of the competition in the high-end GPU market and the cryptocurrency craze have both led to higher graphics card prices.

    PS. G13Homi -> Copy /Paste for us to read here ;)
    It is the easiest way to help our members to read about some interesting Tech stuff, without roaming through WEB,
    if You find some interesting Topic (GPU/FreeSync or similar) post it here in ordery fashion.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2018
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  9. RzrTrek

    RzrTrek Ancient Guru

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  10. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    My RX-580 @1450/2250MHz (tweaked, but not final timings ~220GB/s) does about same as that RX-590 @1545/2000MHz above.
    And since I did my usual benchmarking in 50MHz steps and looked for GPU performance drop-off based on GDDR5 clock/bandwidth, I can say that Polaris @1545MHz could put out around 18~20% more if paired with fast enough memory. My guess is something around 280GB/s required to boost it by 15%.

    @OnnA : As for mainstream Navi. Yes, it should be replacing Polaris at 1st. But one should consider that AMD is more than likely going to redefine what we call mainstream by giving solid upgrade. I do expect mainstream and affordable Navi to be above Vega in terms of performance.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2018
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  11. RzrTrek

    RzrTrek Ancient Guru

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    The best I can do with my graphics card is 1390/2150MHz (stable) and I will get a few artifacts at 1405 (core) and it won't go past 2175 (memory).

    I know every chip is different due to the "silicon lottery" (have tried maxing out the power limit, volts and fans) but I think my chip is just above average.

    However you did make a good point about Navi. If the new "mainstream" GPUs are as fast as Vega, but with lower wattage and price, then it might be epic.
     
  12. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    I have all modifications done via vBIOS. As MSI AB Memory clock did not increase actual bandwidth, just decreased stability for some weird reason. And I bumped Vcore by 6.24mV.
    Mine has Micron memory which started at 160GB/s at 2000MHz and seriously bottlenecked GPU. And weirdly enough my 1st set of tweaks got it to 201GB/s @2200MHz + 1st set of timings. Now at 2250MHz + even tighter timings 220GB/s. And internet considered those Micron chips bad.

    I expect your card has dual-vBIOS too. Maybe check what's in both and combine best of each as start. Then use easy-man's method of using tighter timing strip from something like 1750MHz on 2000MHz strip. Maybe manufacturer did something stupid on 2000MHz strip and you can do better.
     
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  13. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    It is the same thing as we Tweak our DDR4 CL14-14-14-14 is Better than CL15-15-15 ;)

    Fox -> Tomorow you go to the store and Pick Vega (with Samsung HBM2) and You start Tweaking those :p
    Im First to send You my BIOS -> :D

    We need Your Magic with HEX Editor.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
  14. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    AMD's 7nm Navi GPU shines in lab testing

    According to a report published by Fudzilla just ahead of the weekend, AMD has 7nm Navi GPU based graphics cards currently in testing in its labs.
    If its sources are correct, the tests have been very positive for AMD as the GPU has performed "better than expected".

    The above news is already interesting and encouraging but Fudzilla adds some further tasty morsels.
    For example it says that the Navi GPU based products will target the mid-range, as a Polaris replacement. In terms of comparisons against known SKUs we will be looking at Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 performance at around the $250 price level.
    Such a product/price offering could really reinvigorate the PC gaming market after a long mid-range stalemate which was exacerbated by the crypto-mining boom.

    Background details regarding the 7nm Navi GPU include the assertion that it it isn't an MCM but a standard monolithic die design.
    However, we don't know specifica about the process, such as if yields are good, or the performance/power consumption benefits delivered by the 7nm manufacturing shrink.

    [​IMG]

    Fudzilla errs on the side of caution to suggest that Navi-based graphics cards will appear in Q3 next year.
    That sounds like a Computex launch followed by late summer availability.
    However, earlier this month AMD indicated that we might see Navi info/demos at the CES in January 2019.
    Of course, sooner would be better for AMD and all those waiting for new products to replace the aging RX 500 series and GTX 10 (up to 1060) series products on the shelves.

    S: Hexus
     
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  15. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    ^^ Yup as i told You guys V56 Level of Performance for 249€ at 70-100tW !
    Now we need to wait for some juicy demos at the CES in January 2019 ;)
     

  16. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    New uArch requires new driver code. I wonder if we see some bigger change is size of driver package. ~70 days to go.
     
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  17. RzrTrek

    RzrTrek Ancient Guru

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    Hopefully it's GDDR6 and doesn't need to be water cooled as you say (won't believe it until I see it) but let's keep our fingers crossed.

    It would be a steal at $250 and epic for 1080p (not saying that as something derogatory since I prefer to play it that way) with high frames.
     
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  18. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    100% is not HBM2 -> GDDR6 is for Lower chip w/Lower TDP
    HBM2 will be used with Biger chips to fight space/TDP etc.
     
  19. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    AMD Radeon Graphics Update: 7nm Vega Instinct to begin sampling in 2018, Navi architecture in 2019 followed by “Next-Gen” architecture on 7nm+

    This roadmap represents a significant change from before which had 12nm Vega shrinks present.
    It looks like AMD is going to be skipping a beat as far as the GPU side is concerned and going straight down to 7nm for its GPU lineup.
    Die shrinks usually result in big performance and power efficiency gains and its little surprise that AMD wants its entire portfolio to shift to 7nm by 2019, which would allow it to take advantage of significant cost and economy improvements.
    The price to pay of course, is going to be the increased difficulty of fabricating on such a tiny node. In fact, this is the the node after which EUV will almost certainly become a requirement.

    [​IMG]

    This means, that we will probably not see any other graphics update from AMD in the entirety of 2018. If the company manages to finalize Vega, we should see it launch sometime before the end of 2018, but even that could get shifted back to Q1 2019.
    As for Navi, the new roadmap makes it clear that it is almost certainly a 2019 product – one which will probably come by H2 2019 since it represents a newer architecture on top of the die shrink.

    [​IMG]

    • The “Vega” product family in 2018 with the Radeon Vega Mobile GPU for ultrathin notebooks.
    • The first 7nm AMD product, a “Vega” based GPU built specifically for machine learning applications.
    • A production-level machine learning software environment with AMD’s MIOpen libraries supporting common machine learning frameworks like TensorFlow and Caffe on the ROCm Open eCosystem platform.
    • The industry’s first fully open heterogeneous software environment, which is making it easier to program using AMD GPUs for high performance compute and deep learning environments.
    The company gave a very short – but working – demo for the 7nm as well, showcasing its rendering capability. This is something that will allow it to make headway into the ray tracing market that NVIDIA CUDA currently occupies.
    The company also revealed that the card is sampling to partners right now and will be officially launching sometime in the second half of 2018.

    You can see the render benchmark demo of the 7nm Vega over here:

     
  20. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    PowerColor Radeon RX 590 Red Devil spotted

    [​IMG]
     

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