New Signs of a GTX 1100 Series, GeForce GTX 1180 without RT cores?

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. NCC1701D

    NCC1701D Member Guru

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    It would have been nice to see just the 2080 Ti released in the RTX series since it seems to be the one card that can somewhat decently handle ray tracing. Early adopters would have bought it just to try the features out in limited games. This would have given them the ability to still push the RT technology forward without losing sales by forcing overpriced RTX cards to the remainder of their lineup. They could then continue on with the normal GTX cards for the 11 series and offer the usual performance increases at lower prices. This would have also allowed them to gauge the demand for Ray Tracing before driving their entire lineup in that direction. Or maybe they could have just worked on it behind the scenes for a few gens until it was ready for prime time. I get they're reasoning though. If they hadn't forced it on their entire lineup, almost no one would have bought it at these prices since the titles aren't there. Too soon and too big of a performance hit.

    One thing is for certain. If Nvidia has a crappy year of sales, they will change things up to where the market demand is. Money is king. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if an 1180 Ti came out and matched the performance of the 2080 Ti in non ray tracing titles for 800-900 bucks. It seems like they have seen the light as far as Gsync is concerned. Anything is possible!
     
  2. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    The problem is that RTX is simply not worth it on Turing. Not only is the card underwhelming in traditional rendering scenarios (especially compared to its price) but RT takes a very heavy toll on performance. No gamer is going to accept a 40% hit in FPS for better reflections, especially when traditional rendering looks pretty darned good.

    I think it would have been far better had Nvidia released a faster traditional GPU alongside a dedicated RTX card (kind of like how PhysX was). This would not only have allowed faster traditional rendering for those who wanted it (virtually all 4K gamers) but would have also allowed for much more powerful RTX hardware that didn't hold back the GPU, and which could also have been used with GTX cards (obviously not RX cards, because Nvidia). Especially now that SLI is virtually dead, they could have provided another card to put into that second slot, and if that RTX card was able to do ray-tracing at 4K at 60 FPS then it would have been very tempting for eye candy enthusiasts. And then at a later time they could have merged RTX into the GPU, when new process technologies allowed it. Trying to cram RTX into the GPU under the current manufacturing tech led to a watered down product on both counts.
     
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  3. UZ7

    UZ7 Ancient Guru

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    With the new OBS beta they have improved on NVNEC support for all the cards but the one getting the most benefit is the RTX cards. If done right it, streamers can easily stream 1080/60fps without having the need for a dedicated PC or having the fps drop. With the GTX the performance/resource got improved, with the RTX quality improved. So you can probably get as good as x264 faster/medium. I have yet to test it but this looks promising as it takes advantage of the card's features with little fps hit.

    https://obsproject.com/forum/threads/nvenc-performance-improvements-beta.98950/

    So what does that mean? RTX cards could be more beneficial for streamers than GTX.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  4. Fediuld

    Fediuld Member Guru

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    FF15 NEVER supported RTX nor will ever support DLSS or RTX. The demo yes, but not the game.
    Development has seized a week after the RTX announcement, and was one of the "flagship" games. hahahah.

    Only BF5 atm.

    RTX is the new "PhysX". It took 13 years to have 13 worthy to play games, of which 4 of them were Batman! Says it all.
    Sure there are another 50 games with PhysX however they are all of them trash games, some didn't even sold. They strapped PhysX (and later Gameworks) to get Nvidia's funding.
     

  5. Slammy

    Slammy Active Member

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    Im one of those 1080 Ti users with no upgrade path...
    $800 bucks to play video games was my absolute limit and i had to convince myself to pay that much. $1200 for an upgrade is ridiculous and i will not pay it. I really like Nvidia but these prices are nuts
     
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  6. tensai28

    tensai28 Maha Guru

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    Have you ever considered selling your 1080ti first so it doesn't cost you as much to get a 2080ti? Also if you go with msi, you'd get a free keyboard and mouse worth over 200$.
     
  7. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    I so know your situation, couldn't have said it any better. I really have a problem with the 2080TI price tag, the rest, I could easily get myself to buy it if it was 100$ or so more than the 1080TI. I'd have easily gone for that. But not 30% more, that's...


    And what card do we use for gaming until the other one's sold? Or do you think you get a reasonable price for a well taken care of 108oTI now? (Serious question, I have not sold or bought used hardware ever tbh). Also, I have a keyboard and mouse worth over 200$ already, and they're not MSI... so... already bought BF5 too now... not much in there to sweaten the deal for some, just to have it mentioned.
     
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  8. Alienwarez567

    Alienwarez567 Active Member

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    I sold my 1080TI because i found a used RTX 2080 for less money than sold my 1080TI for so i got 2 years new warrenty and a card that performs a little better, so i am pretty happy but i would have prefered a 2080TI if the price hadnt been so steep.
     
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  9. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    Hehe don't get me wrong, but you were lucky then... nobody in his sane mind would pay more for a used 1080TI than a new 2080 costs, except you got a very, very special deal on the Turing card, which would make you quite lucky again :D
    But yeah, I just don't need any noob telling me my card doesn't work in his computer, although it worked in mine, sending me back the brick etc.
     
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  10. tensai28

    tensai28 Maha Guru

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    Sorry, I'm not sure what your asking. You would use your current 1080ti until you find a buyer. Try to find a buyer and try to get a reasonable amount back. Apply it to the price of a new 2080ti. If you don't need the keyboard and mouse I guess sell it? That's more money in your pocket and lessens the cost of the 2080ti. In my situation, I was able to get enough back from my 1080ti aorus xtreme that I was able to take off 50% of the price off the 2080ti. The keyboard and mouse was also a great bonus.
    I don't know how much you bought your card for but you should be able to get a decent amount back provided you don't go too crazy with the price.
     
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  11. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    Yes of course you are right, it didn't come to my mind that I could sell those extra peripherals. Like I said, I don't normally sell my old hardware, either use it in another PC until it gives up or gift it to people around me having less money.
    Well, we shall see then... around here 1080TIs seem to be going away for around 600+€, so yeah I think 50% off a new card does sound reasonable.
     
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  12. Darren Hodgson

    Darren Hodgson Ancient Guru

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    An RTX-less GTX 1180 Ti this year would be very, very nice for me as I remain unconvinced about the potential of ray-tracing in games, given how little visual impact they have for the amount of performance it requires (something I personally doubt I would notice while playing most games anyway). Certainly it doesn't help that over four months after launch we have just one RTX-supported game (Battlefield V), one DLSS-supported game (Final Fantasy XV) and one game with variable shading (Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus), none of them being particularly impressive IMO at showing off the tech, certainly not at the £1,200 asked for by the GTX 2080 Ti, which is the only viable upgrade for me as an owner of the GTX 1080 Ti.

    As such, I am more interested in GPUs that offer better rasterization performance and less interested in RTX. The next gen consoles (Xbox One and PlayStation 4 successors) will almost certainly not include support for ray-tracing (especially since 4K will likely be the base resolution target) so the PC will be the only platform that supports it for most of the next decade and then only for NVIDIA card owners. While having realtime reflections and proper shadows is nice and all that, I am happy with faked alternatives simply because they require less performance so GPU resources can be used elsewhere in ways that make for more visually pleasing and immersive games.

    The question remains whether NVIDIA will release these cards because if they do then I can only see them impacting the success and take up of RTX cards as these will obviously be cheaper. Until RTX becomes mainstream then support for it is going to remain limited to NVIDIA sponsored games. And if you are given the choice of two similar performing cards, one with RTX at a higher price and the other a GTX that costs £200-£300 less then I wager most people would opt for the latter. I know I would.
     
  13. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

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    I've been shouting and flaming nVidia since launch and it looks like it had some effect ;) Jokes aside, I couldn't be happier if this is in fact true since I cannot upgrade at this point but really need the 25% performance increase the 2080Ti would give me.

    I still would prefer a great AMD release just to give them some of my money due to Intel/nVidia having a too dominant position.

    Question is...when will it be released? I hope sooner than later since there is no point in waiting for Q3 or Q4, on the other hand I guess they want to hold off release until Vega 2 is announced.
     
  14. kilyan

    kilyan Master Guru

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    I will probably bring my gtx 1080 in the coffin...
     
  15. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    What your proposing isn't possible. For starters Nvidia couldn't build a faster GPU if they removed RT - we know that because they already built that card - it's a Titan V and it's not faster. TDP and die size limits what they could do. Also you can't have a dedicated RTX card - raytracing touches the entire graphics pipeline - a dedicated RTX card would just be a 2080Ti.

    Nvidia doesn't pay companies to use GameWorks. PhysX is the default physics engine in all Unity/Unreal games. PhysX was never an extension of DirectX - where as DXR already is.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
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  16. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    Every UE3 game supported Physx. It was built right into the engine. Saying they're "trash" is more subjective than anything, fact remains there were games that supported it.

    Also FFXV supports DLSS, the full game does. Not the demo.

    RTX has a slow start, I personally think it's good to explore options like this and also have dedicated sub hardware to help accelerate it.
     
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  17. tunejunky

    tunejunky Master Guru

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    who said i said Ray tracing was vaporware?
    i never did, and besides Ray Tracing is Microsoft.

    DLSS is vaporware
     
  18. MonstroMart

    MonstroMart Master Guru

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    And RT doesn't always look better either. I was looking at a video on youtube made by linus tech and he was drooling over the car's reflection using RT. The problem is the car looked like it was washed and waxed 10 minutes before while it was standing there in the middle of a battle. I was like what he is smoking it doesn't look neither good or realistic at all a car standing there in the middle of a battle with bombs dropping everywhere should be so full of dust it would not reflect much. I even went outside to see how my car reflected the world and it reflected the world less precisely than the car in the game using RT. That almost pristine car's reflection was just out of place for a car supposed to be full of dust.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
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  19. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    You can always buy the 2080ti first and then sell the 1080ti. You won´t have any problem getting a very decent sum from an used 1080ti, with a bit of luck, it can cover almost 50% of the 2080ti cost. For the record, i could do the same because i also have a 1080ti but i´m very happy with it and the price of the 2080ti is simply ridiculous!
    So i´m going to skip this gen and wait for the 3xxx series.
     
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  20. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    Yes you are right, and I can relate. Don't get me wrong, if it comes down to being able to afford it, I am, it just doesn't feel like I want to upgrade for that price at all. Taken in the price of selling a 1080TI and the peripherals one maybe gets, it does indeed cover almost 50% too, but the question remains, do we want to support this trend in GPU pricing? A question I'm not yet ready to answer with a "yes" :)
     
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