New Samsung 860 EVO SSD much slower on Win10 than Win7 (Asus P9X79 Pro) - no IRST driver for Win10

Discussion in 'Operating Systems' started by localmonocle, Apr 5, 2018.

  1. localmonocle

    localmonocle New Member

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    Hi,

    TL;DR: Can I install Intel C600 Series Chipset SATA AHCI Controller on Win10 on my Asus P9x79 Pro MotherBoard for my new Samsung 860 EVO SSD (without having installed IRST driver set), or will that brick my SSD?


    My system: ASUS P9x79 Pro, new Samsung 860 EVO SSD. I used to have Windows 7, but bought Windows 10 with the new SSD.

    After installing Windows 10, I ran various SSD benchmarks and noticed that several values are quite below of what they should be. I.e. in SSD Magician Benchmark only 60.000 IOPS for reading, but it should be close to 100.000. I also noticed that there are no IRST (Intel Rapid Storage Technology) drivers for Windows 10 on the Asus Homepage for my MoBo. I knew that there were IRST drivers for Win7.

    Did some troubleshooting and research, but that was all misleading. Talked to ASUS, Samsung and Intel support. The SATA mode in BIOS was always set to AHCI, that is not the problem.

    Intel support told me they have not made IRST drivers for my chipset (x79) for Windows 10. Only up to Windows 8.1.

    So, to research, I decided to install Windows 7 on the same new SDD. And now the speed tests were all much better.

    Same SSD (Samsung 860 EVO 1TB)

    Samsung Magician - IOPS Read and write
    Win7 (with IRST): 99,365 (read) and 89,111 (write)
    Win10 (no IRST): 59,814 (read) and 52,246 (write)

    Crystal Mark SSD Test (MB/s):
    Seq-Q32T1:
    Win7: 564 (read) and 537 (write) Win10: 564 (read) and 546 (write)

    4KiB-Q8T8: Win7: 410 (read) and 364 (write) Win10: 409 (read) and 363 (write)

    4KiB-Q32T1 Win7: 409 (read) and 363 (write) Win10: 220 (read) and 194 (write)

    4KiB-Q1T1 Win7: 48 (read) and 143 (write) Win10: 43 (read) and 105 (write)

    So, several values are quite faster in Win7.

    Now I don't know what to do. I'd like to use Windows 10. Can anyone tell me how much of a real life difference these speed differences make?

    I browse, email, watch HD video, videogame (Dark Souls, HotS, Tyranny,...) and video-edit (AVID, with external non-SSD hard drives as data drives) on this machine.

    I don't know what significance it is, that the 4KiB Q32T1 test is half the speed on Win10 than it is on Win7. Especially, since many other values are very similar between the two tests (Win7 vs Win10).

    Or even better, If anyone knows of any AHCI driver that I could use on Win10 with my old motherboard? AS SSD benchmark tells me I'm using the 'standard AHCI controller' drivers on Win10.

    On Windows 7, AS SSD says I am using iaStorA = Intel C600 Series Chipset SATA AHCI Controller.

    Is there any way that I could install this C600 driver on Windows 10, even though i can't install IRST? or would that brick my SSD?

    This link here (https://downloadcenter.intel.com/do...Te-AHCI-SCU-Software-RAID-Driver-for-Windows-) says that the driver is Windows 10 compatible. But Intel also wrote me in an email that they don't offer IRST drivers for my chipset x79 for Windows 10.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
  2. joe187

    joe187 Master Guru

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    Yes, Look here: https://www.win-raid.com/t11f23-Modded-Intel-AHCI-and-RAID-Drivers-digitally-signed.html

    I've tested some of these on my old z77 chipset with crucial SSD, didn't really notice much performance difference, but you may get better results.

    I think the one you would probably want to try first is the modded v13 platform (and then maybe higher), but not sure, you really should also read carefully also here:
    https://www.win-raid.com/t2f23-Intel-RST-RSTe-Drivers-newest-v-WHQL-v-WHQL.html

    What i did was basically just tested different versions, and picked the one with the best score on benchmarks. For me, i think it was the v13 overall that gave the best results, but then im on a different chipset. I went back to just using the Standard MS-SATA driver though, as i saw no significant benefit.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
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  3. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    X79 will have no issues with the latest 15.x modded drivers from winraid.

    Under raid mode, IRST native drivers will work with latest 14.x

    BTW C600 is native code name for RAID/AHCI controller on X79 chipsets.

    Unmodded drivers here will work as well.
    https://mega.nz/#!ZR9TiTgD!qGJmDnpeD_QU42uWiJAWQXkJUXsR7AmDDZyzNKEdgaY

    But I would use latest 15x branch modded drivers(modded means it only adds older device support to inf files)

    and lastly, enterprise drivers here https://mega.nz/#!VRkAACoS!nPBJYZJdOOPellzL4bBMRkxKT236aoFoPUhrN9avVlI

    Enterprise are natively supported on your setup. Enterprise is a more stable branch.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
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  4. EdKiefer

    EdKiefer Ancient Guru

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    With regard to your driver performance, is the win10 OS patched for meltdown/Spector?
    That would change/lower results and Q32 is not something you really need to worry about much.

    You can run inSpectre.exe to see if the OS is patched and to disable for a test.
    Reboot system if you make changes before running BM again.

    PS: those numbers don't look too bad to me, there above what I get with 850evo, but you didn't mention test media size you ran. If it was 1gig+ maybe try a smaller test size like 100Mb and see if it changes results.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018

  5. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    Hi OP. I have documented my own Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SSD since upgrading to Win10 Pro 64bit with Samsung Magician.

    Here are my numbers (the 3rd and 4th numbers across would be the equivalent ones you posted to compare). Rapid mode is on. The dates will coincide with the latest insider build released at that time, I got more detailed as time went on;

    6954 6731 145021 107427 November 2017
    7411 6749 164346 103717 29th December 2017
    7527 6978 151053 80849 6th January 2018
    6951 6373 141917 125480 6th January 2018 immediate 2nd test.
    7501 6945 183119 100174 19th January 2018 win10 17074
    7344 6767 151508 96687 11th March 2018 win10 17115
    7226 7416 150188 98537 11th March 2018 win10 17115 updated intel drivers with snappy driver
    7613 7004 164295 98428 11th March 2018 win10 17115 updated intel dram and pci-e drivers with snappy driver
    5779 5202 97356 71291 29th March 2018 win10 17331.1 updated to 3606 bios, system seems slow. also had to down-clock to 4.4ghz due to heat. Possible reformat needed, terrible. Edge browser also very slow.
    4749 4456 94347 60327 29th March 2018 (9:21am) Performance for sequential read and write is at an all-time low and random write is below about 2/3 what it used to be.
    5449 5591 98632 58593 5th April 2018 (22:33) Still Win10 17331.1
     
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  6. localmonocle

    localmonocle New Member

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    Thank you very much @joe187 @Agent-A01 and @EdKiefer . Tech Support Forum communities are amazing.

    I was able to follow the instructions and installed the required certificate and tried out many of the drivers.

    Maybe this is helpful for someone else out there, so I will show my findings. Benchmark is Samsung Magician SSD, IOPS for Random Reading.

    My old SSD on Win7 (Samsung 830): 75,195
    Win7 with IRST drivers from Asus Homepage for my MoBo: 99,365
    Win10 with Standard AHCI driver: 54,931 - 59,082
    Win 10 with RSTe 4.6.0.1085: 55,908
    Win 10 with RSTe 5.3.1: 53,955
    Win 10 with f6flpy-x64: 58,593
    Win 10 with RSTe 11.7.4: 62,001 - 63,476
    Win 10 with RSTe 12.9.4: 62,744
    Win 10 with RSTe 13.1.0: 60,791
    Win 10 with RSTe 14.8.18: 55,419
    Win 10 with RSTe 15.9.3 : 52,246 - 52,490
    Win 10 with RST 11.2.0: 75,927

    I don't need Raid mode, I have only one SSD in AHCI mode.

    @Agent-A01 thank you for letting me know what C600 actually is, that helped me understand things a bit better.

    @Ed-Kiefer thank you for letting me know your thoughts on Q32 and Spectre. I'm a bit worried to just run programs from the internet, like inSpectre.exe, but I guess I already loaded modded drivers. I always think, how can you trust a little tool on the internet. Ah well, but CCleaner had malware in it, so there's that too.
    Test size seems to have been 5 times (? the thing left of the GiB selection) 1GiB. I think I just left the default value.

    So, now I'm faced with the decision: Should I go with Standard drivers for compatibility/stability, or should I try Win 10 with RST 11.2.0: 75,927 ? The Magician benchmark not a fluke, I also did a Crystal Mark test with this driver and the Q32T1 is now 308 for read and 264 for write. So it is a significant difference, in my opinion.

    I just don't know if using these drivers will mess up my work files / corrupt stuff. Or- since it seems to boot fine and I don't get any errors so far- maybe it's fine running these drivers.

    @Stormyandcold Ah, wow- thank you for sharing your data. I just saw your post when I was writing this. The first numbers look like you may have had 'Rapid Mode' enabled in Magician? That makes a big difference, I don't think it's comparable to non-rapid-mode numbers. I had rapid mode off for all my tests. Sorry to hear your speeds went down so significantly :/
    I never heard about snappy driver.
     
  7. EdKiefer

    EdKiefer Ancient Guru

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    Ok, few things.
    The program inSpectreis made by a well known trusted DEV as for as security goes.You will see that program posted by many well-known sites but I understand your feelings, you do need to be careful.
    Always goes to the source of the program.
    I forgot to say, I am running IRST 12.9 now, but most all other drivers are the default, you won't have problems IMO if you pick right one for your MB.
    It is made for the controller.

    PS: I have upgraded from Win7>1511>1703>1709, if there was a compatibility problem with Intel SATA they would have been removed to default windows ones IMO.
     
  8. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    localmonocle - Yes, all my results are with Rapid on.
     
  9. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    BTW raid mode is a subset of AHCI, meaning it supports all features of AHCI.

    There is no harm in using RAID mode with a single drive.

    Anyways, I wouldn't pay much attention to crystal disk Q32 or samsung magician.

    Most important for general performance is 4K, high queue depths are unrealistic for most.

    One problem with testing benches multiple times is that when you do that, you are writing a lot of data and the drive has to run TRIM to get performance back after writing a bunch of data.
    Samsung takes a bit to run trim commands so you are most likely not seeing optimal performance because trim wasn't ran.

    You can force trim by doing defrag > optimize drives in windows.

    Personally I would stick with RSTe 5.3.1 because it is native for that X79 chipset or newer 15.9 set.

    11.2 is quite old and I know older versions of RST have some bugs with power management on certain drives.
    Latest RSTe or 15.9s should be the most bug free stable branches.

    BTW you will not get data corruption from using drivers.
     

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